TAS 777 HUGE Trend That WILL HURT Ecommerce in 2020

How confident do you feel that your ecommerce business will grow and thrive over the next year? Are there any ecommerce trends that you find yourself worrying about? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott as he welcomes back Chris Schaffer. In their conversation, Scott and Chris open up about what trends they are looking out for in 2020 and one trend in particular. You’ll want to pay close attention as the guys drop some helpful tips and insights that you’ll need to succeed in 2020. Have pen and paper ready; you are going to need it!

Amazon’s bid to dominate the advertising sector

If you were to look at the trends coming down the pike in 2020 – what trends would you worry about? While most people don’t think of it as an issue – Amazon gobbling up the online advertising sector is huge! Not only will Amazon remain the number one place where people will go to purchase a product online in 2020, but they will turn their vast network of resources on advertising. What does this change mean for ecommerce sellers like you? Tune into this episode of The Amazing Seller to hear the answer! 

The value of content creation

If you’ve been around the TAS community for very long, you know that Scott is passionate about helping sellers like you understand why content creation is so critical. While you might not have nearly as many resources as Amazon – the one thing you do have is the ability to generate niche content. If you can build an ecommerce business that engages customers and allows them to make a connection with your brand – you are well on your way to ecommerce success. Learn more about what it will take to keep your business competitive in 2020; make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller! 

Don’t put all of your eggs in one basket!

It can be tempting to go all-in on the Amazon ecosystem – after all, they make it reasonably easy. Do you really think that Amazon has your best interests in mind? If they could undercut your product or brand and still make money – they’d do it in a heartbeat. This isn’t because Amazon is evil – they are committed to making a profit – as should you! Scott cautions sellers like you to avoid putting all of your eggs in the Amazon basket. Try building your brand the way Scott has spelled out – the results will speak for themselves! Learn more about this vital topic on this episode of The Amazing Seller! 

Email list building is the way forward

One of the best ways to future-proof your business is to build an email list of your followers and fans. Over the years many people have criticized Scott about the value of building an email list – is it really worth it? Does it work? Time and time again, Scott has seen the amazing benefit of building an email list that outside circumstances can’t affect. Where do you start? How do you build an email list? Scott and his team have developed a tried and tested process that can help sellers like you build an email list. Make sure to check out the link for Scott’s email list building resource located at the end of this post.


  • [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast!
  • [1:00] Chris joins Scott to talk about the trend that will hurt ecommerce in 2020. 
  • [5:30] Why a solely product-based business is risky. 
  • [14:00] Scott explains why content creation is key. 
  • [17:00] Chris explains how branding works in the retail environment. 
  • [23:30] Scott and Chris discuss the success of Peloton, GoPro, and Lego. 
  • [36:00] Does email list building actually work? 
  • [45:00] Closing thoughts. 
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TAS 777: HUGE Trend That WILL HURT Ecommerce in 2020

Speaker 1: 00:00 There's a huge trend that's coming in right now that will hurt all eCommerce businesses in 2020 but there is something we can do about it and it can be an advantage. That's what we're going to be talking about in this episode.

Speaker 2: 00:17 Hey, Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the amazing seller podcast. This is episode number seven 77. My name is Scott Voelker and I'm here to help you build a future Sue's business could, you can create the ultimate freedom fun, and there's always a button you have to take what you learned from this podcast and take action and you can become the amazing seller

Speaker 1: 00:38 of your life. So if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's do this. All right, Chris. Well, we are gonna do this together. What'd you think of the new intro? My friend?

Speaker 3: 00:47 Uh, I like the new intro, although something we had not talked about Scott, this stuff. It's so seven 77. Yes. So it's the lucky triple seven on those three real slot machines. I feel like a winner already.

Speaker 1: 00:59 Yeah. Well, you know what, what we're talking about, if you, uh, if you don't take care of what we're about to talk about, uh, well you could not be lucky and uh, it could be actually painful. So we

Speaker 3: 01:11 like every other time you've ever played.

Speaker 1: 01:14 Exactly, exactly. Pretty much. Pretty much. Uh, okay. So what we are going to talk about here today though is this, uh, you know, we, we actually read in an article, it was actually posted in brand creators Academy. One of our members posted it in there. And, um, the actual title, I don't have the actual title. It was like seven trends, um, for, um, or that will make or break your marketing in 2020. I think I got that right. And really what we did is we were looking at these trends and uh, we seen one of them, which was kind of alarming and it was the trend that we're going to talk about here that will hurt e-commerce in 2020 and really weigh into the future. And it's a huge trend and it's been happening for the past, what, three or four years. But it's really starting to happen even more. And Chris, do you want to touch on what that trend is and then we can get digging in here so we can kind of discuss this?

Speaker 3: 02:10 I think actually Scott, it's really interesting the way that they brought that trend up because for most people they would not have read this trend the same way that you and I read this trend there. They started off talking about Amazon being the third major player in ads online behind Google and Facebook, right? They call Google and Facebook the ad duopoly, if you will, right? The people who just dominate internet ads and if you're going to buy ads online, the first thing most people think of, at least in our space, it's Facebook, but AdWords is the largest platform on the internet and over the last few years, Amazon has been expanding what they're doing with their ads, both on and off of Amazon and they're now third and potentially in 2020 2021 going to be in that second spot depending on what they continue to do with that.

Speaker 3: 02:55 Now what that actually means for everybody in the eCommerce world and something they pointed out, kind of as a footnote in this section of the article, is that it means if you're selling products online, that unless you're doing some other things, Amazon is going to be kind of the default place to go for two reasons. One, obviously they have name recognition and two, they're going to own a huge amount of ad real estate, meaning that unless you're buying ads through Amazon's promote on Amazon, you're going to struggle to promote physical products potentially outside of their own ecosystem.

Speaker 1: 03:26 Yeah, and that's, I, you know, I, I read into it is as far as not that just Amazon is buying ad space now, because I mean it was, you know, one thing that Amazon ranks pretty well in Google too sometimes, right? Like if you're searching for a product, your listing, you would love it to get, you know, to get ranked into a group, a Google search. Um, but I also looked at this and actually reading through the article and I, I'll, I'll link everything up in the show notes guy. So episodes seven, seven, seven, so the amazing seller.com, forward slash seven seven, seven and we'll link everything up there. I'll, I'll, uh, I'll actually link to this article, um, that was published. Um, but what I really, I, I guess what really stood out to me, cause there was seven of these trends that they, that they kind of went through.

Speaker 1: 04:10 Um, but what really stood out to me was like that, you know, Amazon is going to try to dominate Walmart, jet and any other eBay, any other marketplace, like they're going to try to make it where the only place you're ever going to go to buy is on Amazon. Like that is their ultimate goal, right? And that's fine, right? And that's awesome, right? Because okay, well for them, um, they're going to dominate the space and if we're selling on Amazon, well that's where they're going to go. But also it made me realize that if you are only selling products, if you're, if your business is only products, okay, now you're not just competing with the Amazon platform, but you're also going to be competing in the ad space, right? So that means that yes, you can run your own ads and yes, you can do all of that creative stuff with ads and ad placements and getting all creative and you've got a lot of knowledge behind, you know, paid ads, whether it's Google, whether it's you know, Amazon, whatever. Um, but now we're competing against them, not just in their platform but in their ads and in them creating placements and you know, them retargeting us and stuff. So that's actually just another part of the reason why, again, we don't want to only have a product based business. We love product based businesses, but we want also the other parts of the business that can lead to more revenue. They can lead the diversifying and it can also lead to people coming in in a different way versus just looking to buy a product. Makes sense, Chris?

Speaker 3: 05:46 It does. And here's the thing that's got your, and I have talked about this in the past and we're going to get into the antidote of this, which is actually in the article as well, right? You probably know what it is. If you're a listener of this show, but we'll talk about it. You know, Amazon is one of those places where if somebody's ready to buy something, if they know exactly what they want, that's where they're going to go. And you and I have never said if you're selling physical products that you shouldn't sell an Amazon. We're just saying you're missing 97% of your potential audience. You know, 90 plus. I would argue probably 95 to 97% of that audience isn't ready to buy right now or doesn't know exactly what they need. You're ignoring those people. If you're only selling on Amazon, I don't necessarily want to compete with Amazon for the 3% of people who know.

Speaker 3: 06:29 And I'll use, I'll use this as an example, use a TV cause I used to sell TVs. That was my first job. I sold them and sold, sold and installed him theater. Right? So if somebody knows what they want, a Sony 4k television with four HTMI ports, you're going to go to Amazon and buy that. Right? If they don't know what they need, they're not going to go to Amazon yet. So we have the chance to put the right offer in front of them. And notice I'm saying offer not product, right? Let's say we're a a store that sells televisions online, and we can put an offer in front of those people at a different part in the process when they're saying, what is the best television for a square room? Or what is the best television for a football fan? What is the best television for this?

Speaker 3: 07:07 That type of search will not lead them to Amazon, even if we're selling the television inside of the Amazon ecosystem. But my goal, and I think your goal and everybody's goal should be to grab the people before they get there. And then we have the chance to put the right offer in front of them before they ever get to the Amazon stage. Now, there's always gonna be those 3% people who know exactly what they want. And we want to capture those people for selling physical products too. And we can do that just by selling the inside of the Amazon platform. Right. But we have to be conscious of the other 97% and for small businesses, that's going to be something that's a bigger and bigger concern moving forward. And that's why you and I have been hitting so hard on the solution to that problem, which is the brand building stuff for the last few years now.

Speaker 1: 07:47 Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's exactly what we focus on for that reason. Now, you know, I'm not saying that there's not brands that are uh, you know, going to succeed just selling their products like they will, it's going to take some work. It's going to take a probably an ad team. It's going to PR, you know, there's going to be, you know, different parts of their business they're going to have to get really good at. And that's totally, totally fine. I think this article also eluded to like the longterm versus the short term and really what that looks like. And a lot of it was the brand and I think they use Peloton as an example, which we'll talk about that in a minute, which I think is a great example of what we're talking about here. But let's just kinda like, like kinda like our own thoughts.

Speaker 1: 08:31 Like for me personally, like I'm not even looking at like all of the things that you could do like that you could get the physical product brand to work this way. What I'm looking at is this, I know that the one thing that's not gonna go away is people are always going to be researching their market. They're going to be researching, like you said, a great example. Let's say you're buying a TV for your man cave and you want to, what's the best TV for the man cave, right? Or a dark environment or a light environment or whatever, right? Or maybe you're going to look for the, you know, the best, uh, TVs for watching football, right? Like you're going to look for that. And then if you are showing up in content search, you're going to lead people in. The cool thing about this, Chris, that I like about it is it opens up our opportunity to sell more products without us having to invest in these products.

Speaker 1: 09:23 So that's just like one surface level thing that I love about it as far as diversifying. So we don't have to so many people that they're like, well, how do I launch five more products when an unlimited on my inventory? Well, one way is you don't launch five products. You basically just start recommending products that are within your niche and then building out content, building out your email list so you can control the traffic and you can start learning from them. So again, there's not like one way to make it work, but the way that we're looking at doing it is to really diversify traffic. Cause I think if you have traffic, you can make it work right? And if you have the right traffic, and then from there, if, um, if you diversify, not just traffic but revenue streams, you're not just relying on that Amazon channel that's going to dominate, right? Hopefully we're going to be there too. But if we're not, we're still, we can build a successful business just on our own. So that's kind of,

Speaker 3: 10:17 I think that's 100% right. And you know, because, and I mentioned this the other day, we did a Facebook live and I said, you know, for the last few years we've gotten to take steroids, right? We got to cheat and we got to, you know, we've got to get all of the upside of selling inside of the Amazon ecosystem with none of the downside. And about two years ago they started drug testing, right? So now, now we have to do the things. We have to go to the gym, we have to run with a parachute on our back to get faster and stronger. We have to do all of these things. We have to actually do all the reps in practice, right? If we want to build a longterm sustainable business, it doesn't matter what the platform is. We can be talking about two to three years ago, Scott, you remember Facebook changed how pages could reach their audiences.

Speaker 3: 10:57 Every said, Oh, you can't build a business on Facebook alone anymore. You have to look at other channels. And we were like, yeah, duh. It's the same thing with the Amazon ecosystem. If you want to build a longterm sustainable business, you do not want your business reliant on a single channel. Even if that single channel is the largest channel that exists for the thing that you're doing. We're not saying don't use Facebook. We're not saying don't use Amazon. We're saying pay attention to what's going on because if Amazon can cut you out and still make as much money, they would love to write. It's not like no offense to anybody that works at Amazon. No offense to you guys. That would be their goal. They're a corporation. Their job is to make money. Their job is not to help you make money. They do that as a byproduct of them making money.

Speaker 3: 11:38 It's not a bad thing, right? If we're running a business, we want our business to be secure, so it's our job just like it's Amazon's job to make as much money as possible to give ourselves the opportunity to do that. And how do we do that in any market? We do that by owning the, that's actually what Amazon is trying to do, right? Amazon, by creating their own advertising network to try to rival ad words. And Facebook is trying to control more of the traffic that is coming into Amazon and they're getting paid for it. Right, right. Brilliant. Why wouldn't you also want to do that? That's, that's kinda my take on this. And it was kinda funny to read that cause it's like, well yeah, that's what Amazon's doing. They're trying to get more traffic. They're tired of people just going directly to amazon.com they're not tired of that.

Speaker 3: 12:21 But they put a cap of some sort, right. Where they know that only 3% of people are going to come to amazon.com when they're at that point. So they're going to try to start getting to people in different parts of the funnel. And because they're so big, they can't do that with content. Right. They just, they would have to hire thousands of people to do that even for one category. Right. And I'll go back to the TV example, Scott. If you needed to have a bunch of questions answered, you're probably not going to go to best buy. No offense to anybody that works at best buy, but my experience at best buy anytime I've ever been in there with somebody buying, trying to buy a TV, you go, what's the difference between these two? And they go, that one's pretty right. There's occasionally somebody that knows what they're talking about, but if you were to walk into a small, like a television repair shop or a home theater shop in your town and there is one and you were to ask them the difference, they would know enough from the conversation with you to know whether you're talking technical or if they had to break it down and say, this one's prettier and here's why.

Speaker 3: 13:16 Right? It's the color saturation here. Let me show you the differences. You're not going to get that experience at best buy. Just like no one is ever going to get that experience on Amazon. They go to Amazon when they're ready to buy something. They go to best buy when they're ready to buy something and they have all their questions answered. They just want to walk in, they want to walk out with their TV, they're done. But we still have to do the same thing that Amazon is doing and start to capture that traffic. And then if we want to point it to Amazon, we can do that. If we want to sell our own products on our own site, we can do that. If we want to just monetize those people with ads like Amazon is starting to do, we can do that.

Speaker 1: 13:46 Yeah. Well, and that's the thing, right? So one, one thing to, uh, to think about if you want to look at it like a strategy, right? Like if we have that traffic that comes to our website, our blog, a piece of real estate that we own and control. That's why we always say build your home base, point everything to your home base, right? Well, we can drop a Facebook pixel on that page and build another audience, right? A custom audience from people that have just hit our page. Just letting us know these people are your market. And so we're able to do this. Similar to what you know Amazon is really looking to do is they're looking to find other ways to bring traffic to their platform, right? That's what they're trying to do. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to put out useful content where it will address and answer people's questions or give them a how to or give them a comparison, which by the way, a versus a post works really well.

Speaker 1: 14:46 So like Nikon versus Canon or certain models, we know that personally because what we've done in other brands and the brand that we're building inside a brand creators Academy, some of our top posts that we're using in our case study in there, some of the top posts are this verse this because people want to see that side by side comparison cause they're trying to make that decision, right? And then if they're on my website and they make that decision, they can click through and I can link them to that product or a, you know, an an affiliate offer or my own product. Um, so I guess what I'm trying to say here is the whole thing comes down to, and we've been saying this for the longest time is traffic, right? But the right traffic, we don't want just any traffic. We want traffic. And that is what we are really just focusing on in our own businesses, our own brands, helping people in, in building their brands.

Speaker 1: 15:36 Because if you have that, it's such a valuable asset. And another asset is your email list. That's a source of traffic, right? That you're able to drive people to, you know, your content or your, you know, business and, you know, so I just can't stress that enough. I do want to read something here. Chris, I want to hear your thoughts on this. Um, so you know, I'm Jed Meyer from a manager, director of North America of um, what does the eBay adequate equity, I'm going to know how to pronounce that. Um, some sounds like a very important, uh, business. Um, EBA.

Speaker 3: 16:10 There you go. Like EBI equity,

Speaker 1: 16:14 but whether it be, um, anyway, so Jed Meyer had wrote, um, you know, companies that focus too much on the short term and ignore the investment in the longterm brand often will pay a price. Okay. So I mean, yeah, I agree. Right? And then he goes on to say, prioritizing brand will be crucial to cut through the noise and best digital disruptors, a lack of sturdy brand vision and values can also amplify marketing failures, which are under a harsher spotlight in the age of social media. What's your thoughts on that, Chris?

Speaker 3: 16:48 Uh, so first I had to look up what kind of company that was. They are a marketing analytics platform, so that's why they sound like a stock company, right? Right. They sound like a financial firm because they basically are, um, you know, I'm 100% in agreement with that guy and it, it's funny, my dad and I had a conversation in like 2003 or 2004 about what was happening in retail in China. And I know that sounds like a really big thing, but you're starting to see it here now too, right? Look back at, and let's just go back to best buy example. When's the last time you were in a best buy?

Speaker 1: 17:19 Oh gosh, it's been awhile. It's, it's over a year, year and a half.

Speaker 3: 17:24 If you walk into best buy now, and this started with the Apple area, there are four or five branded areas inside of best buy that are marked as Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, whatever. And yes, there's some best buy employees that walk through them, but they have brand ambassadors, staff stationed there, right? So instead of relying on the best buy sales person to sell the LGTV or the Sony TV, Sony sends the Sony rep, LG sends the LG rep and they're both there to talk about the benefits of the brand, right? We're not talking about branding in the sense of like, I'm just going to put my logo on everything. We're talking about branding in the sense of creating an actual connection with your customers. Right. And this is something you and I have talked a lot about. This is the cultivation portion of pace, right? If we can master this, we can be wherever we need to be.

Speaker 3: 18:14 And we have that longterm relationship. And I think people a lot of times, especially in the eCommerce world, shortchange that aspect because they're looking to get the sale, right? They're not looking at the longterm value of the customer. And a lot of people, even even from an advertising perspective, Scott, people measure ads, they look at immediate return on ad spend. This is a conversation that you and I had, but what about the lifetime value of that customer? Right? So rather than trying to make sure that I'm getting the sale right now, which I might do through the Amazon ecosystem for 3% what if I could get the sale over the next 90 days from half of that 97% yup, yup. Right? And that's, that's what you do with branding. But everybody's looking at the bottom line right now of how do I inject as much capital into my business as quickly as possible.

Speaker 3: 18:59 And the way that we do that is by selling on Amazon. That's fine. But what about the other portion? We forsake that for the long term. And when you go all in on any platform, whether it's Facebook for ads or social media or list building, right? Or whether it's on a platform like Amazon to sell your stuff, you're at their whim and you've forgotten about the longer term side of that, which is building out your own real estate. Like you and I have talked about actually owning the customer and the customer relationship because when they need to buy it in two years from now, if we're still connected with them, we've created a relationship with them. Maybe they go to Amazon and buy it from us, or maybe they just buy it from us directly, right? So you have to focus on the longer term portion of that. It sounds scary. It sounds really difficult, but it's actually a lot easier than we think it is. We just have to shift our mindset and we have to shift the metrics that we're actually looking at in terms of what is success. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 19:50 It totally does. And I think people right now that are listening there, they're probably in a couple of different camps and we kind of know this just from the past year and a half, two years, people are emailing us directly or we're seeing them at a conference or whatever, but there's usually two camps, right? It's someone that's just starting out and they're like, you know, is Amazon still a good place to start? Should I start with a product and then launch it on Amazon? And the other camp is a, generally I've started on Amazon and I've either got a successful product or a few products and I'm doing pretty well, but I'm scared because I know that that can go away overnight. Or the other one, which we have someone that's in brand creators Academy that came in because they had launched five products in the past year and they're not profitable.

Speaker 1: 20:36 And they're figuring out if they can be profitable and what they need to do to build out the external stuff because they've already found that they can't compete because they thought they were going to be. But then competition came. So there's really, you know, there's a couple of diff, there's people that are already up and running and people that aren't, but the bottom line is this, the, the focus should still be the same and that is how are you going to get in front of your market to get traffic and then from there, how are you going to lead them to what they need next? Like that is literally it in a nutshell, right? Like find the right people, find out like you know what they need help with and then from there lead them to resources that help them genuinely help them. And then from there lead them to what is next.

Speaker 1: 21:22 If you're, if you're only, you know, focusing your business around one or two products, it's kind of hard because then everything has to revolve around that. But what if you could open it up, and I always say this too, I say this a lot in brand creators Academy. Like what if you could open up the entire Amazon catalog and in your market and you have, you know, 25 products, a hundred products, whatever it is, they're yours too. Because now you can sell those products. Now they're not yours, but there's ones that you can promote that you might not ever sell. It opens up the, um, the, uh, opportunity to really be able to then diversify your revenue stream without you having to shell out that money. And also you get to sample and test other products without you having to lay out that money. Um, plus once we get traffic, there's a lot of cool things we can do with that traffic.

Speaker 1: 22:08 I mean there's digital products we can offer if your market supports that. There's ad revenue that can come in, which we're experiencing a really good, a really good result with that. And that's really one of our primary focuses right now is to try to get that up and running along with affiliate products and then bolt on some physical products if it makes sense. Um, so I just really want people to, to the big thing I want them to take away, Chris is that when we've been saying it is you know, in the future moving forward, like you do need to create your own traffic channels and you need to diversify plain and simple. And the way to do it is the way that we've been talking about. And guys, if you haven't been through the checklist yet, brand growth validation checklist, you're gonna want to do that.

Speaker 1: 22:48 It's totally free. You can actually see me going through an example, actually two examples going through that process, brand creators.com go there and make sure that you go through that, that checklist. It'll give you a really good roadmap of where you are, but also where you need to go. And it also validate if that market's even able to go through that process and build that out. Um, Chris, what else did we want to address here before we wrap up this episode? Again, we just wanted to kind of touch on this, but also just let you guys know like what the market is saying as far as like what the industry is saying I should say. Um, when it comes to, you know, Amazon and eCommerce and all these other channels. Um, and just marketing in general.

Speaker 3: 23:28 Yeah. And I know one thing's got that we wanted to touch on was the Peloton example. Yes. They are used here. And it's funny because they're talking about, you know, Peloton started as an ad driven company, right? They ran a whole bunch of that. What was that? Two years ago they ran a whole bunch of ads and now a of their business is coming from referrals. It's coming from the actual experiences that customers are having. That's called cultivation, right? What Peloton did was they got a whole bunch of people into their ecosystem by selling a bunch of stuff and then to continue to grow that business. And they have two models, right? It's got, they're on a subscription model for their services and they sell hardware, right? So they sell a physical thing that you can buy and they sell a digital product. They knew they had to make that experience good for people.

Speaker 3: 24:11 Well, how do you do that? You do that in a variety of ways, including by providing them the answers to the questions that they're already searching for, right? Peloton is doing exactly what we're talking about. They just have a service that's their digital product versus, I don't know. Let's go back to the man-cave example, Scott. If we are selling, um, like barn doors or posters like custom posters for the man cave right now and we're already up and we're already successful, successfully selling, why would I care about this? Well, we need to understand that it's kind of hard. There's not really a man cave poster market, but there is a man cave, right? And so if we can start to answer all of the other questions that those people are going to have about the decor for their man-cave, where it should go, the size of the room, that it should be, all of these kinds of things, then we can transition them into other products or services that we decided to offer ourselves or that other people are selling. Like televisions, like warm out, like speakers, like speaker mounts. I'm never going to manufacture those things. Maybe speaker mounts cause there's only one moving part. But the rest of those things we never would have had the chance to monetize on if we didn't create the experience. There's been a hundred exercise by companies that have existed, right? Peloton is dominating that market right now because they took the extra step of cultivating the relationship with their customers through the experiences and through the stuff that they're doing and creating.

Speaker 1: 25:29 Well, you know, another good example is actually two good examples of this that has done this exact same approach. And uh, the one that comes to mind for me is, um, the uh, GoPro camera, right? So GoPro, they did some advertising, they got up and running, but then all of a sudden people are sharing their experiences with the GoPro and now all of a sudden people are like, well wait a minute here. Like these are cool food. This is cool footage. I want to work, uh, uh, you know, a camera on my helmet. You know, I want to be able to, to show people me going down the mountain side, right? So now where do I get this thing? What kind of camera did you use? Right? Then that's where that conversation and then all of a sudden it's starting to take on a life of its own. The other company, Chris is Lego. Lego's is all driven by that and they, they encourage it. They encourage you to go ahead and promote their brand and their name by showing the different builds that you've done. And

Speaker 3: 26:22 they have a primetime television show this year. Have you seen the ads for that? No. No. It's a will they have a celebrity host. It's called, I think it's called master builders box.

Speaker 1: 26:36 It's funny to watch while you're looking that up. A friend of mine, he was, he's a big Lego guy and he basically was telling me too, they also have an area where you can submit, um, a build and then if it gets accepted, they'll actually put that as one of their new builds for whatever the year is. So you, they're having user generated content, user generated ideas that they get voted on. Should we, should we make this, uh, a 20, 20, uh, build edition and then you're going to have the community vote? They have, they have, uh, conferences for Legos, right? I mean, so that right there is, I mean, of course that's a huge example, but you can take that same example and then plug it in. Or maybe you're not going to be the Lego, uh, you know, brand, but maybe you're going to be the one that does all reviews on Legos and then you're just going to sell Legos and you're going to sell accessories and you're going to sell, you know, maybe how to build the best Lego table or whatever. Right? There's ways that you can still get involved with that brand without you being the brand.

Speaker 3: 27:37 Did you find that the show is called the master builder? Nice. Or sorry, Lego masters. It's will Arnett is the host. Oh wow. Because he's a Lego Batman. Right? So that was the joke. Right. And it's one of those things where it's just like, okay, you don't have to take it to that level, but everybody forgets that Lego has a ton of competitors, like mega blocks and a bunch of other people that you could go buy. But most people want to get Legos because they're aware of the brand and they're aware of the relationship that they have with the brand. Right? If your parents bought you Megablocks when you wanted Legos, you would've screamed as a child. It's the same thing here. And the reason that they've done that is not because their blocks are better. They're the same blocks, especially now. They're basically identical. It's that the experience and the branding behind it, right?

Speaker 3: 28:26 The relationship that people have with the brand of Lego, right? A lot of people, if you, let's say you're a big star Trek fan, mega blocks, a couple of years ago, because Lego had star Wars, they got the licensing rights to star Trek. I know a lot of people who wouldn't buy it because it was mega blocks. They were like, Oh, that's really cool. I love captain Bacara and I love the enterprise, but I'm not going to buy it because it's mega blocks and mega blocks suck, dude. It's the same blocks. Right? And it's the thing that you like. Yeah, but it's not the brand. Right, and you mentioned they've got conferences, right? They've got all of these things. Have you ever into a Lego conference or seen a Lego conference? They, there was one that was attached to something else that I was going to when I was living in Dallas and walking through there and looking at the vendors is amazing.

Speaker 3: 29:11 They sell custom Lego figurines, right? The little Lego guys. You can get ones with your face on it. You can get all kinds of stuff they sell. They have boxes of just white blocks, right. In case you need more just white blocks cause I go doesn't sell a box of white blocks, right? So people won't buy them in bulk and like separate them out by colors and then they go and they sell this. There's a huge audience behind it and it's because of the things that they've encouraged with their customers and it's because of the content that they've created around that.

Speaker 1: 29:38 Yeah, no, I love it. It's a great example. And you know, even back to your man cave cave story I was thinking of of like, okay, what other products, I mean you have neon lights, you have posters, you have, uh, memorabilia sites that offer that, right? You might be able to be an affiliate for that. The other one here here would be a big ticket item. So it was like a pool table, right? A pool table or a nice dartboard, a witty dartboard, right? And then specialized darts in nine cases. And like there's all of those things that go into that room, but yet you could just show 27 man-cave ideas of 2020 and then you show these ideas and then you might break down in one area. It's seven best pool tables for man caves or something, right? Like there's things that you can create around that market and around not even their brand but around the market. And I think that's really what you need to kind of separate that. Are you a product brand or are you a market or you know, a brand serving a market brand. Um, and uh, and you really need to answer that. And once you do,

Speaker 3: 30:39 I would correct that. God, it's, are you a product or are you a brand? Right? Brands do the other side of that. Products don't. Products just say, and you've heard us talk about market message match, right? Which is something you alluded to earlier. If I want to put up a product on Amazon, I have great market message match because you go, Hey, I've got this thing. And somebody goes, Hey, I want that thing and that's that, but that's 3% of the market. The rest of the market, we have to figure out where they are and give them the right message so that we can introduce them to our brand. Right. If we just want to sell products, that's okay. I would argue with you all day that that's not a longterm sound business strategy. And what you're seeing, even people like Nike, Nike, Nike's not a shoe company, right?

Speaker 3: 31:21 They're a brand. They're an experience, right? You have people who are giant Nike fans and they'll only buy Nike shoes and you know, they're really narrow. And I wear like two sizes bigger than Nike than I wearing anything else. I don't know why people really like Nike or they really like Reebok or they really like Adidas or Adidas depending on how you want to pronounce that. Right. And that's actually, that's actually the apparently the correct way. But nobody, I'm just not surprised that you know that. Um, well it was, yeah, it was a branding, a branding story at some point that I read through right there. Like, nobody says it, right? I say Adidas, whatever, but you guys kind of get the point right there. An experience, and when you see a Nike ad, it's not generally for like, okay, let's go back to the most controversial Nike ad of all time.

Speaker 3: 32:07 Reno's own Colin Kaepernick, right? They weren't selling his shoes. They were selling the experience of Nike athletics, right? Which is, we stand with the athletes who stand for themselves, right? That's, that's what they were going for, right? We're independent thinkers. We're, and they were going through all these brand messages and we want to have this community behind us, right? They were reaching out to the community that Collin was standing up for, right? But they, they misread that one, but they weren't advertising shoes. You don't see a Nike commercial where they go, this is not a shoe. This is a water bottle. But they go, Hey, look, it's a size 12 it's really pretty. It's got laces. It's got a bigger heel on it. You don't ever see a Nike ad that does that. You see a dude running through a field with shoes on, right? Because they're selling you on the thing that it will give you.

Speaker 3: 32:55 They're not selling you on the product inside of the Amazon ecosystem. We can't do anything except for go. It's a shoe. Right? Right. And so you're never going to reach the 97% of people who go, I just want to shoot. Right. You have to go to the other places, create your own stuff, create your own content and actually build out a brand. There's nothing wrong with just selling shoes, right? If that's what you want to do. Right? Just keep in mind that it's going to get harder and harder to compete. Just selling shoes. Ask Footlocker. Hmm.

Speaker 1: 33:24 Yeah. No, it's, that's true. So, all right, we're going to wrap this up, but there's one thing that, uh, well we are actually working on inside of brand critters Academy and it's a huge part of, of really to me, gaining the traffic really, really quickly when we're waiting for our content to be indexed by Google. Cause that's part of our strategy, right? Like posting great content and then having that content get indexed and it takes some time. And, and that's more of a longer term approach. But the way that we speed this up as we build a list, you guys have heard us talk about building a list for the longest time. Well right now, and I'm not going to give away all the details we did or actually I did an episode a few episodes back about how we were at like 3,400 or 3,500 emails.

Speaker 1: 34:04 And I talked about the strategy and how we got there. Well, currently right now we're over 8,500 emails and we still have about two and a half days, um, for this giveaway that we're doing to, uh, to end. And the crazy thing is, cause a lot of people say, Chris, they go, Oh, you're building an email list and that's great and all. And you're doing it through a giveaway for your starting, you know, when you're starting out. And, but you know, do those people even open your emails? Well, we just did two, uh, examples inside of brand creators Academy. And I'll give you the gist of it right here, but I'm going to go really deep into it on an upcoming episode. Once this ends, we have our final numbers in and I'm going to try to do that. So it's going to be in the next couple of episodes.

Speaker 1: 34:46 So stay tuned for that. Um, but really what it is, is we're reaching out immediately and we are getting a, we're getting the temperature of the list are, are they warm, are they, are they just all on subscribing? Are they ignoring us? Like all of that stuff we rate now just in two different examples, we have sent out two separate emails and through the strategy that we, that we teach and we've talked about here as well. Uh, and I'll, I'll walk through that. We're over a 30% open rate, Chris, and over a six and a half percent click through rate, which basically means guys that were getting people to actually not just open the email, which that's step one, step two, we're getting them to go over to our, to our website, into our blog where we can have those conversations. And we can help them and then from there they can buy things.

Speaker 1: 35:37 So um, if anyone is skeptical about does email list building work? The answer is yes, but there's always a, but like I said in the beginning, you do need to know the market. You do need to know like what they, what they're after, like what do they need, what do they need help with and so there's two different ways that you guys can do this. All right. Number one, if you haven't gone through the brand growth validation checklist, you're going to want to do that because that will identify the market but then also identify what the market would want that would get their attention. The second part here is if you haven't yet built the list and you want to see a full case study of Chris and I doing it, go to list build class.com okay, list build class.com it's a free workshop and you'll see exactly how we built a list.

Speaker 1: 36:21 That one there, Chris. I think that example was over 7,000 emails and we show you the market that we did it in and we show everything behind the scenes on what actually made that work. So you'll learn exactly what it looks like, but then also how you put all the pieces together. Um, and literally, um, it's the exact process that we're following once again. So definitely check that out. List build class.com and then also for brand creators, uh, the growth checklist. Go to brand creators.com. Um, Chris, any last thoughts you wanted to give here before we wrap?

Speaker 3: 36:54 Yeah, something I just wanted to, to kind of point out, Scott, you said we've got a 30% open rate and somebody may be going, okay, so you've got, and it's 8,600, by the way. I just looked, we added a hundred sensors.

Speaker 1: 37:04 It'll probably be 9,000 by the time I do that podcast episode. But anyway,

Speaker 3: 37:08 but by the time we get off of this and you start recording another podcast episode, I wouldn't be surprised, but what about the other 70% of the list? Yeah. Okay. That's great. Maybe I didn't get to them today, but keep in mind, right. This is the very first time we've done anything with this brand and I don't know, Scott, do you know when you were in New York, how big was the high school stadium? Like the high school football field?

Speaker 1: 37:28 Oh gosh, maybe wages. Yeah. Oh, where our kids went. Um, I would say maybe 200

Speaker 3: 37:38 maybe. I'm going to do something really quick, but I just want to look at something because my, my gut feeling is even if you're talking about only 30% of the list, right? Um, I'm trying to find the capacity of mind, cause I know I went to a bigger school and there's some that are like 80,000. Right? But I want to say mine was like 1200 or 1400 people that would have been at one of our talking school [inaudible] high school football stadiums worth of people that are reading what you're sending and going where you want them to go. Right? Like think about it that way. Right? The craziest stadium you've ever been. It's three of those on a Friday night, right? Anytime you send an email, and this is the first time, this is the first 30 days that we've started to build this list and people aren't just getting an email and doing nothing with it. They're clicking through. Anytime we send an email. And Scott, you sent an email 45 minutes ago.

Speaker 1: 38:29 Yeah, I haven't checked the numbers. You're going to check the numbers on that one.

Speaker 3: 38:32 Uh, we have a three point, let me refresh it and make, I'm not a liar here. 3.7% open rate

Speaker 1: 38:39 and almost a hundred clicks already. Yeah. And so how long ago was that? 45 minutes. 45 minutes. So not even an hour. All right. 50 52 minutes. Okay. Okay. So I also want to, I don't want to get into a whole discussion on this cause we could go for days, but think about this guys. Okay. Um, social media, everyone is, Oh my gosh, I want to get like followers, right? I want to get followers. I'm going to get likes, I want to get all that stuff. Okay. I want you to just sometime go to a page or you know, maybe an an influencer of some kind. Uh, I actually did this with Brendan Broussard cause I'm like, he's got like organic, usually like the, the, you know, the guys like him, they're there, they're not out there paying for likes. Right. They're, they're getting organic. You know, they, it's kind of like Tony Robins, he's not going to have a campaign to get fake likes.

Speaker 1: 39:28 Right. So you look at someone like that, it has a good reputation. They have a good following. Right. And he, I think he's got like 850 or 900,000 followers on Instagram. Well, he'll post something and he might get on a, on a picture that he posts. He might get on a good day, six to 10,000 likes. Okay. So again, look at those numbers percentage wise. Right? And then if you look at the video views, a lot of times if he's doing really good, he might get 30,000, maybe 40,000 on a video with 850,000 people. Okay guys, it's terrible. Okay. So I always tell people, if you're going to do anything, build the list. And then from there, if you want to amplify stuff through Instagram or Facebook or any of those, it's fine. But number one, you don't own that stuff either. You, you do own the email list. Okay. And there's a lot more we can do with that email list and versus um, you know, just being like, well if my account on Instagram gets shut down or gets hacked or whatever, then I'm out. Um, we have that email list and we have that database. So anyway, I don't want to go too deep on that, Chris. We can do a whole nother talk on that.

Speaker 3: 40:40 I want him to point out something and I may dive down the rabbit hole that you don't want to dive down, but how many interactions do you say he got on that post? Video views, right?

Speaker 1: 40:49 Video views. I've, I've looked at his and some are anywhere between 30 and 50. Some are higher, but very rare.

Speaker 3: 40:56 30 and 50,000 out of how many? 850. 900,000 okay. Let me do some math here. This is gonna be dangerous. Chris is going to do math on the fly. So, um, everyone a three and a half percent, three and a half percent, right? Right. Somewhere between three and a half and five depending on where it falls in that 30 to 50,000 but here's the deal. They didn't have to do anything to watch that video. If they were scrolling through their Instagram feed, Facebook generally counts three second views. If it starts auto-playing, which it does, and you're scrolling slowly, you're not flicking through your Instagram, you're scrolling slowly, chances are you watch that video without having to do anything, whether you that content or not, what you're talking about inside an email, Scott, to get people to click, right, they have to click to open, they have to read, they have to find the thing they want to click on, and then they have to click to even get somebody to open that message.

Speaker 3: 41:46 They have to have more of a commitment. It's a higher level of commitment to what that content is, who that brand is, what it means to them. Then to watch something on Facebook or Instagram or even YouTube in a lot of cases because they may have just fallen down a YouTube rabbit hole, but they have to take a conscious action to interact with you in email. And that was something I wanted to point out. I'm not saying other platforms aren't great. Just saying those 3,500 people that opened that last email that we sent out had to take conscious action to do that. They weren't just scrolling through a feed, their phone went ding. They looked at it, they said, Oh, that's interesting. They clicked on the thing and then a couple hundred of them or a couple thousand of them click the thing again to go to wherever we were linking to. Right. There's a lot more commitment and you have a much deeper relationship with those people because of that commitment. Then you ever will inside of social media right itself.

Speaker 1: 42:39 I'm scrolling through my phone here while we on. Um, so I, I did, I pulled up his account again. So 816,000, um, followers. Okay. And I'm going to go back a little way. So that way it's had some time to mature and not a ton, but I'm going to go back. So he has one here that was posted a week ago and it got 24,417 views. Now those views could be like you said, a scroll through, right? You're just scrolling. But let's look at an image that actually people that they tapped like, right? So here's another, here's an image. Now this image did actually better. Oh, actually I take that back. It's an image, but it's a video. So that wasn't an image. Let me go to an image.

Speaker 3: 43:16 It's our own little trick that knows how to get an audience.

Speaker 1: 43:19 So here, um, he posted and that looks like that was six days ago and it got 7,093 likes. Okay.

Speaker 3: 43:26 793 divided by 816,000

Speaker 1: 43:30 yup.

Speaker 3: 43:31 So 0.08 6.09. Here's

Speaker 1: 43:36 another image that got 10,003 59 so a little better. Okay. And let's see, that's around 1%. Yup. And then let's just go, I'm going to go back to this one here. So this one here was posted 19 hours ago, okay? Which is not that long ago. And it got 1,876 people seen it or they liked it. Right? Um, so again, the only reason why I'm doing this guys is because you got to realize sometimes you, you, you focus on like those big numbers and you compare yourself to the big numbers of a brand, right? Um, and you look at like, I want to have those numbers because it shows that I am a big brand, right? And if I have more numbers, I'm going to get bigger results. And that's not always the case. And this is a perfect example of that. I look at those as vanity numbers.

Speaker 1: 44:26 It's not something that I, I want to focus on real actions that are taken and the way that we can we Mark this as when we have an email list, we can actually look and see from tracking how many people opened and then how many people clicked. And then from there it's just like social media. Even though someone opened our email but they didn't do anything, doesn't mean they won't do something next time. Right? So you got to understand that we're getting in front of those people just in a different way. And I believe that email is becoming the new channel again because social media is so darn crowded, you're flooded with it. Right? So all right, I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, totally different topic and subject subject. But just to remind you guys, um, I am going to be doing an update here, coming up in a couple of episodes and I'll be breaking down that strategy but then also giving you the updated numbers, the results. Also, I'll go through those two emails that we wrote and um, I will break down really how simple they are and you can follow a similar formula. Um, so this way here you can, you can go ahead and uh, and start building that list. That's primarily what I want you to do. And to do that guys, go to list, build class.com everything is there for you. You see exactly what we've done and if you haven't gone through the brand growth validation checklist, here's another reminder. Go there. Brand creators.com.

Speaker 2: 45:44 All right Chris, let's wrap this up guys. Remember as always, I'm here for you. I believe in you and I am rooting for you. What? You have to, you have to come on, say it with me. Say it loud. Say it proud. Christa. Gonna say on the count of three one, two, three take action and we're going to have to sync that up a little better next time. All right guys, have an awesome day. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: 46:09 Hey, before you go, could you do me one quick favor? If you haven't done some already, can you head over to iTunes and can you leave me a review over there? I would really love to hear how this podcast has helped you in one way, shape, or form. And Oh, by the way, I read every single one of them, and actually I'm going to read one right now, and this one came in recently from Allen V and he said, this is the best podcast that delivers not only free but most important, very well organized content to help you understand and know what you have to do in your brand and Amazon business. Scott is very energetic now, really and smart about organizing lots of information into little baby steps to help me take action. Thank you very much, Scott, for being an inspiration and for delivering so, so much. There's a lot of OHS there, so again, I read every single one of them. I appreciate all of you and I would really appreciate it if you would leave me one of your own reviews there as well. And if you haven't also subscribed yet to the podcast, if you can do that, that would be amazing. Talk to you later. Bye.


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