TAS 563 How and WHEN To PIVOT in Business To REACH New Heights with Jaime Masters

Is there ever a good time to make a pivot in your business? If so, how do you know it’s the right time? What steps should you take to make the pivot successfully? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from guest expert, Jaime Masters. In her conversation with Scott, Jamie opens up about when to pivot in business, what to do when your heart isn’t in your work, why she developed the Owner Box platform, and much more! Make sure you have all the tools you need for the day when you may need to pivot by listening to this helpful episode featuring Jaime!

When is the right time to pivot?

How do you know that it is the right time to make a pivot in your business? Are there warning signs that you need to be looking for? According to Scott and Jaime, it all comes down to sticking to your end goal, you why. What is your why? If you know your why and you stick to it, you can make changes and pivots along the way that help you deliver on accomplishing your why. One thing that you want to have on your radar is to avoid chasing the green grass that always looks greener on the other side of the fence. Just because you aren’t getting massive traction or results in one area, it doesn’t mean that you should jump ship and start something new right away, give it time. To hear more from Scott and Jamie on this important subject, make sure to listen to this episode!

What to do when your heart isn’t in your business.

Have you ever felt like you were just going through the motions? What does it take to break out of that funk and get back to living life in a way that is energizing? Many business leaders are faced with this tough scenario when they reach the point in her business where they no longer feel passionate about the work they are involved in. What the solution? One option is to start giving away responsibilities and roles that you occupy so you can redirection your attention and focus on what you want to pursue. Another option is to sell your business and move on completely to a new project altogether. Learn from Jaime and Scott’s helpful conversation on this topic by listening to this episode of The Amazing Seller!

Don’t let redundancies ruin your flow!

What if there was a way to save your business tons of revenue simply by updating your systems and workflow? Does that sound too good to be true? It’s not! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Jaime Masters as she explains how her program, Owner Box can help leaders like you streamline your organization for maximum efficiency. Through her work consulting with business owners over the years, Jaime has developed a systemized approach can cut through redundancies and help leaders like you get your team to focus on what really matters. Check out the link to Jaime’s tools located in the resources section at the end of this post!

Do what it takes to succeed!

Let’s face it, building an ecommerce business and running a startup isn’t the easiest road you could have chosen to travel down. You picked this journey for a reason, you are tired of the status quo and you want to go out there and build something that you can be proud of. That’s great, but are you willing to do what it will require in order to succeed? Are you really willing to hold out and say no to short-term success so you can build something that will last? If so, you are in good company! Learn from Scott and the insights he has to share, don’t take this resource for granted!


  • [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast!
  • [3:10] Jaime Masters joins the podcast.
  • [5:00] When you should consider making a pivot in business.
  • [16:00] What to do when your heart isn’t in your business anymore.
  • [28:00] Jaime talks about her project, Owner Box.
  • [32:30] How to streamline the workflow in your business.
  • [39:30] How to connect with Jaime.
  • [41:45] Closing thoughts from Scott.


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TAS 563: How and WHEN To PIVOT in Business To REACH New Heights with Jaime Masters


[00:00:02] Scott: Well, hey, hey, what's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of The Amazing Seller Podcast. This is episode number 563. And today, I am excited. I'm actually so excited, I'm a little bit out of breath. I have to be honest because…

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…I have a special guest here that I want to share with you and I've had around before. She's a good friend of mine and I've hired her in the past as a business coach to really sort out my direction and get clarity and she's really good with systems and all of that stuff inside of a business, but also inside your head. She runs a podcast called Eventual Millionaire so her job is to interview millionaires and from there she dissects like what they're doing, kind of like what they're doing that has gotten them to where they're going, and all that stuff. So, it's pretty cool to be able to sit down and have a conversation with someone like Jaime. Now, what I did selfishly, I kind of had her come on because I wanted to talk to her and catch up. I haven't talked to her in a while. I mean, we've texted back and forth a little bit but I wanted to actually have a conversation.

And I wanted to talk to her about how and when to pivot in business to reach new heights. And the reason why is because I'm personally going through that myself right now with the podcast, with my other businesses like it's just it's one of those times you start feeling a little bit of a shift, a little bit of a pivot, and you’re thinking yourself, “All right. I want to make sure that I do this right and I want to make sure that it's for the right reasons,” and all that stuff. So, I thought, “You know what, let's get her on. Let's talk about this. Let's see what she's been up to. Let’s see what she's learned.” But also, let's dig into this topic because I know it's a big one and every entrepreneur I've ever talked to that has had any level of success always go through the pivot stage like when and how and all of that stuff. So, right now you might be running your business or building your business and you might be thinking, “That's all I want to do,” and that's fine.

[00:02:00] Scott: But I can almost promise you there will come a time either opportunity will come about that now you have other skill sets that you haven't had in the past and now you do or maybe you have new connections because now you’ve been networking with the right people and now a new opportunity comes up or a partnership. So, it's going to happen, okay, and you have to think yourself like when is the time to do that and why are you doing it? Because you'll reach a height like you'll reach that one thing that you think you are striving for, and you'll get there and then you’ll be like, “Okay. Now what?” So, that's what I want to dig in to here and that's what we do dig in to here on this podcast that I’m going to share with you right now or this conversation really. That's what it was, her and I kind of chatting back and forth. So, I'm going to stop talking so you can enjoy and learn from this conversation that I had with my good friend, Jaime Masters. So, sit back, get ready to learn and also broaden your mind, and really your vision and your clarity because she is a master at this. So, that's why her last name is Masters, I guess, right? No, I'm just kidding.

All right. So, anyway, enjoy this interview that I did with Jaime Masters.


[00:03:10] Scott: Well, hey, Jaime. What's up? Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It seems like forever and I’ve got a lot I want to talk to you about. How are you doing?

[00:03:18] Jaime:  I am amazing. It has been forever. Why don't you ever text me? Come on.

[00:03:21] Scott: Yeah. Well, we have like little bits and pieces and stuff but there's so much that has happened since you and I have worked together and for anyone that doesn't know, I hired Jaime in the beginning really of the podcast where really we’re starting to become something and I was like, “What do I do? Like, I want to do this right. I don't want to screw this thing up,” and you've given me so much help, and it's been over three-and-a-half years now since that aired and we hit just 11 million downloads. I don’t know if I told you that.

[00:03:49] Jaime: No. Congratulations!

[00:03:50] Scott: Yeah.

[00:03:51] Jaime: That’s a ridiculous amount.

[00:03:52] Scott: Yeah. It’s pretty crazy and I have a lot of that to really thank you and the coaching aspect of it, and I mean just mentally coaching through it as well. As you know, a lot of it is like the mental side. You’ve told me that and I know it, but, yeah, it's been a heck of a ride. And really today though what I want to dig into, I want to figure out what you’ve been up to and I know you’ve been kind of going through some changes a little bit and what you’ve been doing, and really, how much you've grown, and I think I want to really dig into like the pivot for people in business and when it's okay and when you should start listening to that because I think a lot of business owners, they think because they started in one direction they have to stay in that direction and I think that becomes paralyzing sometimes. And I'm actually going through that kind of right now. You and I've been going through it when I was working with you somewhat but I've really made that transition.

And I actually told my audience that, “Listen, guys, we’re to be pivoting a little bit. We’re not leaving e-commerce behind but I am going to be talking about these other topics and I want you guys to be aware of that. And really to me, it's about not just about how to sell on the Internet. It's about like how to do it ethically, how to do it what feels right within the core, and really just I think how to do it the best way possible. So, yeah, I think pivoting it’s like a huge thing and you've done it. You know, you've done it.

[00:05:17] Jaime: Well, so that's the thing to me that's really, really important is you get these inklings and as an entrepreneur, you’re known or you're supposed to anyway, I don’t know if we do it, listen to intuition and pay attention to what it's saying. A lot of times we ignore it like, “Yeah, but I'm not supposed to because I'm supposed to do this or that,” and then the inkling gets bigger and bigger and then you’re like, “I hate what I'm doing, like why am I doing this stuff?” And the pain gets so great that you’re like, “Okay. I’m just going to burn all the shit,” and we don’t have to let it get that far either. Everybody in business goes through an evolutionary process and sometimes it feels like Europe and sometimes it doesn't. But paying attention to when you do it and when you don't I think it's really important.

So, one little quick thing that I want to say on that was I interviewed so many millionaires and they would always say that they were serial entrepreneurs. They’d be like, “Oh, they have so many businesses. You can have five at a time and it’s awesome.” But the funny thing is, most of them are like, yeah, but you have to have one that does really, really, really well first before you switch to something else. So, when you're going, “Great. I have this thing. It's not actually working. I just hate it. I’m going to hop on somewhere else,” is that really the point of pivot or not? So, I usually recommend the book, The Dip, for people. Have you ever read that one?

[00:06:33] Scott: Yes, I have. It’s a good one.

[00:06:35] Jaime: Yeah. Because you’re like, “I don't know if this is real or if this is just me being an entrepreneur on another up and down swing,” and that sucks too, right? And so, trying to figure that out and again it is all mental like you said is difficult, especially if you're sitting in your own head and trying to do it yourself. Whereas, for millionaires specifically, they usually figure out one piece and then they’ll add another one and then they’ll add another one later once they've got one going well. Does that make sense?

[00:07:00] Scott: Yeah. I think the hardest part for beginners is their wanting to get the result and if they don't see the result quick enough then they jump to the other. But I'm a big fan of like committing to the process and allowing it time and then you can give yourself that time, deadline, and say, “Okay. I've given it 12 months. Where am I from where I started to where I am now? And is it as far as I wanted to be? And if not, why? And does it feel right?” I think that would be the time but a lot of people are like, “Okay. I tried this thing for a month and I'm not making $1 million like this sucks.”

[00:07:36] Jaime:  Wow. What the heck? That’s what everybody on the internet says works. Come on. Geez.

[00:07:38] Scott: I know. I mean, all these cars, the people are showing that they're standing by because they started selling on Amazon and literally 30 days later they have a Jag and it’s in their driveway. Imagine that.

[00:07:51] Jaime: Yeah. I got seven. I mean, I totally get it.

[00:07:54] Scott: I know. So, it is. It's frustrating because to me that is kind of like what’s being portrayed out there and I just think that a lot of people are trying to find that, that get rich quick. But you can get rich in your own life, not just money wise, by doing something that you enjoy but I think you have to give it time and we are so impatient because we want results. I mean, let's think about health and fitness. We want to work out and we want to see the scale drop. It’s just what we want to do. It's the same idea. So, I think it's really hard. I think for me, I've been able to stick on a path long enough to get results and then ride it for a little while and then I get that itch. And then I start to ask myself, “Well, should I? Shouldn’t I? Why am I doing this?” And I start asking myself all those questions and you always reach that one level that you think once you get there, everything is going to be awesome. You’re like, “Well, wait a minute. I’m here now and it's not as awesome as I thought or there's more inside me that I need to do because I want to serve more,” or whatever the reason is. So, I guess, how do we get out of our own head?

[00:09:04] Jaime: Well, you have to die. I don’t know what to say. That’s like… But that's my point, right? So, this is entrepreneurship, “Aaah!” in your brain a million times over and the tough thing is that entrepreneurs are sort of wired to like new, different, see opportunities everywhere because we’re wired like that like visionary, we go, “Ooh, squirrel, right?” like you hear about that all the time but what we don't understand is that we think that switching to a new path, the grass is greener and it never is. I can’t say never but almost never. And so, but we haven’t experienced those obstacles yet, so therefore we think it's better. So, where is that line now between, “Hm, I'm going through and I should actually make a change,” versus, “I'm just being crazy again and I want to go over here because I’m not seeing the results that I want to.” And so, I mean, that's a pain in the butt to learn as an entrepreneur because it is a head game.

So, personally, and I went to this too, I can't say anything, like when I was a newbie entrepreneur I think I had six different things. I had a provisional patent. I had all these things because, seriously, I had an iPhone app. I had all sorts of things. And I was like, “Well, when will it hit?” And it’s not, especially after interviewing these many millionaires, it’s not about that. I found it’s the commitment to the end goal that matters, not the how to get to the end goal. That fluctuates typically but what is that end goal? And if you do, actually, I make my clients like stick with a goal. You pick one and you have to convince me to change it because there are going to be ups and downs to get to that anyway. That being said, where is the line of, “Ooh, I should actually pivot.” Typically, if you're actually having some success and you still want to change, that means something, right? Like, okay, I know I'm seeing success and that's great but I don't feel fulfilled. A lot of the times once we start going through an entrepreneurship if we don't feel fulfilled, we’re just doing it for the money or whatever it is. That's a good inkling.

[00:11:00] Jaime: A lot of people towards, not the ends of their careers, but they're very successful, I work with a lot of very, very successful people online even and they’re like, “Is this it? Is there any more? Like, I feel like I did everything. Now what?” So, there are different stages for all different types being an entrepreneur and identifying where you are just really makes a difference on whether you should pivot or not.

[00:11:22] Scott: Yeah. And, you know, again that’s a constant struggle I think for – and I think you nailed it though by saying like you're going to be at different stages in different places throughout your journey. I mean, I go back three-and-a-half years. I started the podcast just to document my story. I had no idea what it was going to turn into and now it's turned into something pretty amazing. But I also get people that come up to me and they're like, “Oh, Scott, you're the Amazon guy,” and then that almost makes me like, “Well, yes, because that's kind of what I’ve been talking about for three years, but I'm really a lot more than that.” And I can help you in so many other ways because I've built businesses myself brick-and-mortar and helping other people do it and not just the e-commerce space but that's kind of what got me, you know, the fame if want to call it or the spotlight and it's like, and I know there's a lot of entrepreneurs that…

I mean, look at Amy Porterfield. She started and she was the Facebook ads girl like that's who she was and now that's not even hardly tied to her. I'm sure people still think of her as that occasionally but really, she's pivoted and I think it's just part of the journey. Look at our friend, John Lee Dumas. He's pivoted a few different times. I mean, he was the podcast guy. He still is but he's also now he's into the freedom journal and all of these other aspects but I think it's finding that right pivot and when to pivot is the trick. And the way that I look at it is you need a business that can support your lifestyle. Once you get that, then I think it becomes easier in a sense to where you say, “Okay. This thing will help me survive and now I can start pivoting a little bit without worrying about this other thing because it's kind of feeding itself or whatever.”

[00:13:14] Jaime:  Well, that’s why so niching goals is huge. So, when you’re a beginner, niching makes a huge difference. You can grow so much faster. I do, and this is to my detriment, I didn't want to be the podcasting gal. Everyone is asking me to be and I was like, “Don't label me as that. I've been a business coach for years. I probably could have  made a ton more money.” By the way, thanks, John. But I was I was so adamant about not niching to the podcast world because I thought it would be so difficult this way. That was just in my head. Everybody goes through an evolution. Especially when you have an audience, they love you as the human so switching and pivoting makes a huge difference. Even for Eventual Millionaire, I felt the same way and I love Eventual Millionaire. How else can I ever be introduced to millionaires every single day who are like, “Please, let me meet you,” right? Never in a million years on the other way, right? So, we’re up to almost 500 now. My Rolodex is fantastic. That being said, most the stuff for Eventual Millionaire is me and I don’t personally sell a lot of digital type programs because I know a lot of people do them.

So, the tough thing is how do I build a business that's not all about my face? Don’t get me wrong. I love talking to people and I am keeping Eventual Millionaire forever and ever and ever because of introduction to millionaires all day long. Really, really, really great. Yeah. But if I were to try and grow that and try and sell it, I can’t sell Eventual Millionaire because it’s me. And so, we created Ownerbox which is a separate brand so we can actually keep it separate so it’s not just about me. It's about the system and now we can actually sell that too. That make sense? So, it’s going how do we do that? Because I've seen people try and pivot and switch complete brand names and there are sticky situations no matter how you do it, but it's what actually feels right to you for that next step. I wish I had niched back then. So, I tell people, “Now you can totally shift,” and there's definitely nuances as you know going through it for sure especially names and all that fun stuff. But we grow and evolve as human so why can't we grow and evolve as businesses?

[00:15:18] Scott: Yeah. Okay. So, let's talk about that because I definitely want people listening that feel like, “Well, I’ve built this business whether it's e-commerce or whatever,” let's use e-commerce because that's what a lot of my audience is doing and they’re building an e-commerce brand but they're not like into it anymore. It's kind of like they're just like they’re doing it. It's paying the bills and they're able to maybe acquire customers, and they've learned all that stuff and they’re like, “I'm not like fulfilled. It's not like satisfying me.” So, what recommendation would you have? I know what mine will be but I want yours because you're here. What would you, what kind of advice would you give them? I mean, it's producing pretty good revenue. It supports their full time but they have this other calling that they want to do something else. It's funny. I'll tell you a story afterwards. I got someone in my inner circle who is doing amazing. I mean, we’re talking $500,000 a month in one brand and about $90,000 in another brand per month and he's at a situation where this is kind of happening. So, I just want to know your thoughts first and then I want to tell you that story.

[00:16:29] Jaime: Oh good. And you’re going to be like, “Jaime, that's totally not what I would say.” No, I’m kidding. So, what I personally know about humans, well, entrepreneurs specifically, is we love new things and we love to learn. And once we feel like it's already been there, done that, there's not that new excitement piece anymore. So, one of the things that I do actually at Ownerbox the point of it, my mentor way back when was like you don't want to be the guy in all the hats, in all the boxes of your org chart or your team structure. You want to be the guy in the owner box, above everybody else. So, to me having somebody especially if they're excited about this of getting themselves out of the role so if they do want to sell it, they can. Awesome. Exit strategy is amazing. Or if they don't want to be in day-to-day operations, you can learn and sometimes it's difficult for entrepreneurs, to tell you the truth, to let go but learn how to do those pieces which should be a little bit more exciting and fun and then you can sell it. Or you don’t have to because you're not in the day-to-day and then it doesn't matter about you and how much you care about this. You can start something else because you’ll have that time and space.

I do that with a lot of my clients. They’re like, “Okay. This business is great. Eh, like and I want to do this. This sounds fun and exciting.” So, what we do is we refine the current business well enough and we hire somebody that can be a replacement ideally-ish and then work on that piece while we’re going, “Ooh, what are those new exciting things? What is that line of fun that we can start building in the opposite direction?” Does that make sense?

[00:17:58] Scott:  Yeah. It absolutely does. And so, okay, so this one guy who I’m so excited to work with because, again, he's got so much momentum but he’s a great product creator, but not a great marketer. And I'm finding this a lot like I'm finding this a lot like right now currently as we’re recording this, I’ve got nine people out of ten that we want in there and I’ve got three more appointments to basically screen because where people have to apply, the whole thing. And…

[00:18:24] Jaime: Scott has to like them. He has to be like, “Okay. I’ll hang out with you.”

[00:18:26] Scott:  Well, that is a requirement and that was also, I remember you told me a while ago like you don't want to have people that you wouldn’t sit around like the campfire with. It’s like you want to be around cool people and it's like, yeah, I do like if I wouldn’t hang out with you on a Saturday or Sunday then we probably shouldn’t do business together and we shouldn’t work together. But, I mean, I think someone said that recently too, when you can say like you can basically not be around annoying and whiny people, you are now successful, basically.

[00:19:02] Jaime: I think it’s amazing, yeah. Woohoo. What a family. Darn it. No, I’m kidding.

[00:19:07] Scott:  When you can have that, you’re successful. So, anyway, so these nine people so far, amazing people and every one of them has a unique situation and everything. But anyway, so doing great, product creator. He can create. Does amazing things. Doing 500K in just the UK by the way, not even in the US yet which is crazy and it’s not a product you really can't get excited about. It’s a product suite but you can't really get excited about it. It’s like think about bungee cords like it's like how do you make bungee cords exciting, right? You’re like, “Well, I could tie my boat down. I could hold the door open,” like how you create content? That’s kind of hard. Now, you could niche it down and say, “Well, these are special bungee cords for kayaks or whatever.” You could do that but it’s still not exciting.

There’s this other project that he’s really excited about and that one’s doing pretty well. It's about $80,000, $90,000 a month which is doing not as good as the 500. The 500 one is really his cash cow. That's the one that's feeding the business. That's the one that's kind of supplying the cash and now he's able to pivot and now do all this fun stuff that he hears me talking about like content creation and finding your right person and then being able to create content that you genuinely enjoy. So, I think it comes to a point when you have to understand that you do have to pay your dues, but as you’re paying those dues, I feel like you're learning so much through that process. So, everything that you learn can be applied to your next thing. Does that make sense?

[00:20:31] Jaime: Totally. So, one of the things and I did this at Ryan Rand’s event way back when, so he asked me how do you get from 1 million to 10 million? And I went back through and I asked a whole bunch of my friends that were millionaires like what is that thing that makes all the difference in the world? And what it was, was not what I was thinking at all and people say that all the time but they said level up on their strengths. But when you're in your business and you’re doing, wearing all 17 hats in your business, you don’t know which one your strength is. When you're doing your strength, it should feel easy and fun and like it's like water, you’re in water. Because when we try to do the stuff that sucks, so if this guy hates marketing bungee cords, that’s not his zone of genius and product creation is, how do we get somebody within the company to be all that stuff that is their zone of genius? So, what the millionaires do is they keep going, “Ooh, what do I want the best? What other hats of the org chart do I cross out so I don’t have to do the stuff that weighs me down?” That's the thing that’s so tough about being a solopreneur or having a really, really small team or just contractors. You're doing the stuff that you're probably not that good at.

I was a project manager for a really long time. I hate it. Now, I can do it, but it is so draining that I was like I want to quit every single day. So, being able to identify what those things are that give you energy versus what things are that don't, sometimes that's the only key missing in your business where you feel like you have to do all those other pieces or you haven't even looked at it to identify what you really just would love to do all day long. Because when you're in your business you’re like, “Well, this is what I do.” And because most entrepreneurs have such a hard time letting go or trusting in the system or trusting the team, they won't give that over and then they’re like, “But I just want to throw. I want to crawl in the corner and throw it over here because I’m done.” We’re very melodramatic. But in reality, it's like do a time tracking. What gives you energy? What doesn't give you energy? This is not rocket science here people even though it feels like crazy entrepreneur brain. You can actually systematically look at that and go, “Oh, if I do more of this, that sounds fun. I want to do that all day long.”

[00:22:35] Scott: Yeah. It's funny that you're saying that because, I mean, I’ve heard you preaching this forever and you yelled at me a few times for it because I am a very, “Just let me do it myself, it’ll be quicker.” Because I do know Photoshop that doesn't mean I should be creating my graphics. Just because I know how to edit videos, it doesn’t mean I should be editing video. I don't get excited about it but I can do it and I know the way I want it done but you've taught me that, well yeah, but if you could take some time, you do have to go backwards a little bit and say, “You know what, it’s going to take a little time to get these people to where it’s at my standards,” but in the same breath, it's going to free you up so that way there you can do what you truly enjoy, which is being on the mic.

Now, being on mic, I get done. Goes to Dropbox. Everything else is taken care of. It's amazing. I don't want to transcribe. I don’t want to do show notes and all that stuff. But at first, I had to because I didn't have the money feeding into the business so I had to kind of start doing it myself, which I did a horrible job on the show notes. I did as little as possible. I hate writing. I think I told you. I hate typing. I'm not a good texter. I'm like a voice boxer. It’s like a big thing for me now. I’m like boxing back-and-forth. I’m like, “This is amazing. I don't have to type.”

[00:23:48] Jaime: I’m the same way. I record video, record audio in my car and then send it to my VA and she’ll transcribe it so that way we have all the notes so I don’t have to write anything like I hate writing too. But knowing that stuff is really, really important because the person that's hating their business right now and is writing all the time but they hate writing, that’s the little piece that needs to fix, not the whole piece.

[00:24:09] Scott: Exactly. This is actually interesting that we’re talking about this and I'm just going to throw it out there. I think people get value from it but I just want to kind of share with you. Do you know Dean Jackson?

[00:24:20] Jaime: Yeah.

[00:24:21] Scott: Okay. Well, I love Dean. I’ve been following him for years. Just a simple guy and everything is kind of like streamlined but he has this thing called the self-milking cow. Have you heard of this?

[00:24:30] Jaime: I don't think so.

[00:24:31] Scott: Okay. Well, it’s beautiful. Well, he basically says that we or all people in our business like us like we’re creators or we’re business creators or whatever depending on what your expertise is but we have to think about ourselves as like a cow but we are not the farmers. We’re just the cow that’s supplying the information, the content on the creator or whatever. So, we are, a lot of entrepreneurs are self-milking cows because they’re basically – so he goes, “We have to figure out how to find the farmers, not the what. The who.” And he did this whole thing on it and then he said, “So, what you got to do all day long is you got to put your cow mitts on and anything that you have to take your cow mitts off for, you shouldn’t be doing,” and I’m like this is brilliant. I love it. So, if anybody wants to check that out, I’ll link that up in the show notes.

[00:25:13] Jaime: That is such a sexier way to talk about. We did the exact same thing. We talk about owner versus operator. That's what the Ownerbox is all about. Owner’s role very, very different than operations, operator role. Most of the time they do not compute. So, farmer, cow.

[00:25:28] Scott: Yeah.

[00:25:29] Jaime: He's a copywriter. He's totally good at that. He’s very good at creating pictures of me trying to milk a cow, on myself. This is great. Now we’re talking about this on the podcast.

[00:25:39] Scott: It’s amazing. I mean, it’s just great. He can go for days.

[00:25:43] Jaime: Yes. And that’s sort of the whole point though. He's really freaking fantastic at that one thing. But I even know that he doesn’t even do all of the copy that he does for himself because my copywriter is working with him too, right? And so, when you look at what you're really, really good at or what gives you that oomph, I thought it was project management because I was a project manager making six figures when I was 22. I’m awesome. Every second of it feels like hell. So, I have Leilani, my right hand, we call her my operator, who manages my entire team because I'm not good at managing people either. I'm okay but I'm not great and so being able to have somebody that can run all the details and do everything and really allow you to be in that creative space and not have to feel like you have to run the business, it's liberating.

[00:26:33] Scott: It really is to be able to just show up. I mean, like myself, right, like I had on my calendar that I have to meet with Jaime today at 11 o'clock and I’m like, “That’s going to be awesome like I haven’t talked to Jaime in forever. And I know I'm going to feel good after I get off that call and my audience is going to get value. It's perfect.” Now, if I had to after this take this, edit it, transcribe it, put it up on the show notes, put it up on Libsyn, I don’t want to do that.

[00:26:56] Jaime: Yeah. I’d be like, “Creating podcast sucks. I hate this.”

[00:26:57] Scott: Yeah. I’d be like, “Jaime, can we do this another day? I don’t think I’m going to record today because I’ve got something to do.”

[00:27:03] Jaime: Or you’ll notice because you’ll procrastinate on it, right? So, you’re like, “Oh, I’ll do the fun stuff and then I just will let all the other stuff sort of pile up,” and then you don't want to look at the pile because you’re like, “This is all the pile that I don't want to do.” Awesome. Great.

[00:27:15] Scott: I know. It's so true. Okay. So, let's just before we wrap up, I know you’re a busy lady and you have other commitments but let's talk a little bit about like Ownerbox because personally, I started hearing a little bit about it through your emails because I read your emails and I was like, “Okay. So, she's doing a little bit of a pivot.” I'm looking at pivots too. And I know that you're very good at systems and prioritizing like all of that stuff and I knew that that's kind of where we were kind of going and so I’m like I was interested in that. So, I just want maybe you can kind of talk about like where did this idea come from and then how did you bring it to life.

[00:27:55] Jaime: So, it's funny. I've been a business coach for 10, almost 11 years now. It's 11 now. Yeah, it’s a long time. And you hear the same thing over and over and over again, so I would tell everybody that they need systems and I work only six and seven-figure guys anyway and girls. Don’t get me wrong. I’m just so used to saying guys and most I work with men actually but the funny thing is, is that I would go, “Okay. So, you need this for a system. You need this. You need this.” Most of the owners that I’m working with are like, “Growth. I want growth. Growth.” Sales marketing, help me double, help me triple. That's what I want.” The problem with a lot of those things are yeah, I can help you double. I can help you triple but it’s going to be painful because you don't have any system set up to handle it. But when I would tell them, “This is what we should create for systems,” it would go on the back burner. It’d be those things that they didn't want to create and if they didn’t have somebody on their team already that was amazing at it and already knew, they’d be waiting for them to tell him what to do but they didn’t like that, so they just ignore it. So, they still create a button. They double the revenue. They're working really hard but then it's painful and then they’re like, “I’ve been working so much. It’s this up and down thing.”

And so, what we did for Ownerbox because I was like we’re reinventing the wheel. Every single time I try and explain how to do an SOP, we actually source quite a few SOPs from millionaires already, what’s already working. I’m a super geek so we have Zapier and all sorts of configurations. So, why don't we just leave the owner out of it? The owner shows up for decision, webinars, and trainings. That’s it. We have an owner’s decision sheet. How do you want this system to be set up? And then we work with their operator, whoever their right hand is that be good enough to be like the right hand. It could be an exec admin or project manager but Leilani, my right hand, works with their right hand to do everything to implement it all so the owner can go, “This is how I want it to be. Go do it and come back to me,” and we made sure that they set up the system right. It’s very similar to like franchises. When you think of a franchise, you're buying the systems, right?

[00:29:50] Scott: Yeah.

[00:29:51] Jaime: But the problem is if I ever to sell you a big box of systems which happens all the time, buy an employee handbook, buy this, no owner goes through that because they hate that stuff. They hate it. But what's difficult is because the owner is necessarily good at hiring, their team aren’t A players typically. They don't know how to manage up because they’re like, “Well, they’re my boss. I can't say anything because I might get fired and they might not like me.” So, the teams that they’re running are I don’t want to say a lower level but not managed very well because the owner’s not – they’re new with this. As you start growing, we have five, ten people in your team that are like, “Ah.” So, what we do is we go, “Owner, okay, you’re kind of crazy.” We’ve actually been called a translation. We are a translator between owner and operator because I can go, “Owners are crazy. I’ve worked with them for 10 years,” and the operators are like, “Wow. I'm not the only one.” Because what we found is even just learning styles are completely different.

So, the way that we run the training for the owner is visual and wide scope. They want to know visually, “Show me everything,” whereas the operators are typically a lot more detail oriented and more analytical. They want a class syllabus. They want to know how detailed we’re covering when we’re covering it. They need to know way in advance. The owner is like, “Don't tell me anything. I don’t want to know until I have to make a decision. Too much in my head.” So, being able to get the learning style of each so that way we can actually train your team to do what best business practices are. Because, typically, when we hire, it could be somebody from corporate that only knows bigger structures. It could be someone from another small business, but they don't know the perfect system to set up for your business. And so, it seems like this incongruence that hopefully one day we’ll have robots to be able to do it, no, all of our systems. But when you think of it, when you think of the way that things are, onboarding, sales process, honest, this is not reinventing the wheel every single time, but as an entrepreneur, we feel like it is because we’re unique and different and special snowflakes and we want it our way.

[00:31:56] Jaime: It's not really like that at all. What you want to do is you want to make the decision so it does have your flavor. Don’t get me wrong. And you want to hand it off to your team. Make sure your team can actually do it instead of micromanaging too. That all make sense?

[00:37:06] Scott: Yeah. So, you're basically creating systems for people on your team or someone on your team to basically implement. Now, what if someone wanted to just to really maybe quick overview like what would be like a first place where someone in their business could say like, “Okay. I still feel like all over the place,” would it just be to kind of like consolidate everything into one like document so they can kind of see like all the day-to-day operation stuff and all the things that they don't want to do, what they want to do? Like, how do they flush that all out?

[00:32:35] Jaime: That's a great question because that's the other thing like there are so many things. When you think of the 80/20 rule, you’re like, “Well, what is actually going to make a difference first?” So, what we did and I was actually I – we always think we know what the people want so we ran a bunch of betas because I was like, “I think they’re going to want this. I work with them all the time. They’re going to want this.” I was wrong because they don’t want just a big list of SOPs. They don’t want that stuff. What we ended up doing was we created three boxes. We have a team box where it's the 80/20 of what matters in your team. We have a company box where it’s the 80/20 of the systems of the company. So, for example, in the company box, we need a dashboard. We need one place where everybody goes. If you hire a new employee, everything, the employee list is there. We have templates, of course, scripts and templates, and all that fun stuff. So, that way everyone goes, “We have one place to go.” Yay, right? Because we’re all over the place. This is entrepreneurs. So, that's step one.

Step two, are they even having company meetings at all? Are we having people come in and are we actually talking to them? I know I remember chatting with you about this long ago like are we chatting with our team? Do we have goals set up? So, within the dashboard, because what we have a tendency to do is be so much in our head as an owner and it’s like chaos in there. Aaah!

[00:33:54] Scott: Oh, yeah. Kind of.

[00:33:55] Jaime: Yay. I’ll help you but wow. Most regular humans think that we’re crazy and we forget how crazy we are because we’re just hanging out with each other all the time.

[00:34:04] Scott: “I missed that turn, honey.” “Why did you miss that turn?” “I was thinking about a hundred other things.”

[00:34:08] Jaime: Yes. Exactly. A hundred things go. Ready? We are so efficient. And that's the piece of going, “Okay. Do we have this little checkbox off? Do we have a weekly meeting?” So, that way, for example, this is one of my favorites, you set a goal, you set metrics to the goal, and then you forget about the goal or you don't have anywhere to put them. But being able to have your team have a weekly meeting where the KPIs are automatically there and all you have to do is look at the KPIs that you care about every single week and it's already done for you and you don't have to tell anyone, “Hey, we need to update this KPI. Hey, we need…” Simplistic things that really, again, not rocket science, but if you're the owner, you have to tell them exactly how to set this up. It’s a pain in the butt. So, we go over that for the 80/20. One of the things that matter most to a business, company sales, onboarding, the things that really make a big difference so that way they can actually get the ROI from their time in advance as best they can because otherwise, we’re just going to create systems that doesn't save you any time. Well, that’s not worth it either. That’s a waste. I shouldn’t say a waste. It’s not really a waste, but it doesn't feel like I'm making progress and then I want to give up like we talked about before.

[00:35:16] Scott: Yeah. So, basically, it's to get people to follow some systems, but also where it can take it off of the owner and hand it off to someone else and then from there, they can have the different elements in business to make it run more efficiently, but also less stressful, right?

[00:35:34] Jaime: Definitely.

[00:35:35] Scott: I think that's the key and that's what we all want and as you grow, these things become even more of a problem that you right now you might not be thinking like you might be thinking, “Well, I’m just getting started.” That's fine, but I would say even while you're starting, start to figure out that first hire or the first three hires and then what are they doing and then how can you prepare in the future so this way here you could create systems and processes because you don’t want to be doing it.

[00:36:02] Jaime: Well, that's the thing that I think is really, really important is we think org chart is big business. It is. It feels crazy and crappy and everybody wants to get away from that. We call it a team structure but going over your contractors, even if you're the person, you have a ton of contractors. Are they good contractors? Do they suck? Like rating them. We have a team toolbox that goes to rates, who you have, whether they be contractors or employees to know what you're doing because if you don't have people that are good, it’s holding you down. If you have to ask them seven different times, don’t get me wrong, sometimes it’s them but then organizing the team outline so you understand how many boxes you're playing. Because let's say you're the salesperson, but nobody's holding you accountable to any of that stuff so you’re like, “I’m letting that stuff go by,” or maybe the marketing guy that's like, “I hate marketing so I never look at it,” nobody's managing you. Nobody's managing up. So, if you did actually have a structure where you're the owner, the operator’s underneath you, and then you’re in the box that’s the marketing guy underneath that, then that means that the operator’s managing you.

So, the operator is going to go, “These are your metrics. How are you going to hit them this month?” instead of going, well, they’re the owner and therefore we’re just letting them do what they need to do even though as a business owner you know when you let those things that you’re not very good at slide, your business doesn't see the progress it needs to see anyway. And I'm not saying do all the stuff you hate. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying do it right now so you can make more money so you can hire someone else in that place so you can eventually work yourself out of the stuff that you don’t like.

[00:37:34] Scott: Yeah. And that's a big one for a lot of business owners is when they're growing, they don't want to invest that money in that because they think, “I want to hold onto it.” I think that's a normal thing for all entrepreneurs. We want to hold onto the money. We don't want to let any of it go even though we knew or we know that if we let some go and we invest in our company and people, we could probably grow even faster and probably even wider and to a bigger audience.

[00:38:00] Jaime: Well, you tell me. The people that you work with I know are A players, right?

[00:38:03] Scott: Oh, 100%.

[00:38:04] Jaime: And beforehand not having A players and know like thinking back and going like, “I had to see here some B players,” this stark contrast that everybody cares about like it's a cliché, “How are your A players? How’s your right hand that’s amazing?” Like, that’s such a cliché but it’s a million times over because if you don't trust your team, you're going to hold on to everything. So, if you’ve got a bunch of contractors and they all kind of are great and you're the guy like holding all like on your shoulders, “I got this. It's fine,” spending the extra money and having an employee or having somebody actually that's an A player that you go, “I gave it to them and they did it. They did it better than I thought.”

[00:38:44] Scott: It’d be good.

[00:38:45] Jaime: Yeah. Hm, maybe I can let go. That matter. So, the first cog in the wheel is going, “Do I have a team that I can trust so that way they can actually build the system?” So, me as trying to hold on to everything business can actually freaking let go. If you don't trust the system, you’re not going to let go.

[00:39:02] Scott: Yeah. And that's huge and that's been a thing for me for a while but it's gotten a lot better and I believe I am partly there. I’m growing just like everybody else and I think it's just a matter of like you need that level of trust, and once you do have someone you can trust then you can trust them to do the right hires or do the right approvals or whatever and you're just going to be at that upper level where you need to be to make those bigger decisions. This is cool. All right. Where do people find out more about you and what you're up to? And I know that you have a lot of resources on your website and stuff so why don’t you direct people where they can go, Jaime?

[00:39:38] Jaime: Totally. So, check out EventualMillionaire.com. We actually are putting a page together for all your people, of course, so if you go to EventualMillionaire.com/TAS, we’ll put the team toolbox and anything else we mentioned. And if there are any resources that you think would be great for people, whether it be hiring or whatever, let me know and we can add those to the list too because I have a plethora of from 500 millionaires, their best practices, and all sorts of different guides and stuff. So, let me know if anything specifically would help them out.

[00:40:07] Scott: Yeah. And I would say definitely go to iTunes and search for Eventual Millionaire. Go find Jaime's podcast. It's awesome and it's not just your typical I’m going to interview someone with an amazing success story. You do dig really deep into what got them there and a lot of the struggles along the way. So, I want to thank you again personally. Every time I see you in person or even a conference call like this or whatever I really truly appreciate everything you do for the community, but also for what you’ve done for myself. So, I appreciate it and we’ll be in touch. So, thanks, Jaime.

[00:40:41] Jaime: Thank you so much, Scott. Have an amazing day.

[00:40:43] Scott: You as well.


[00:40:45] Scott: All right, all right, all right. That was awesome, right? I mean that was really, really good stuff and I know whenever I talk to Jaime, I always walk away kind of being like, “Okay. I've got a little bit more clarity.” I don't feel as though I’m as scattered as I was before or really some things to think about and she just really does have a great way of breaking things down and also allowing us to understand that it's normal and it's okay and these things are going to happen but she is a master at that, but she's also a master at really like creating a systematized machine in a sense that can run, I don’t want to say an autopilot, but kind without you having to be involved. She's really, really big on that and that's why she's come out with Ownerbox because that's her wheelhouse. That's what she's really, really good at. So, definitely go check that out if you guys are at all interested.

And I just want to remind you, guys, like there are going to be times in business that you have a little bit of an itch. You have a little bit of a thing that's kind of like pulling you, and you’re like, “Man, I want to do this thing, but I know I need to be focusing over here,” and that's okay but you have to kind of consider why you're feeling that way. And sometimes you do have to take a step or two back, so this way here you can move in the right direction that you want to go because to me, it's not all about the money. If all I wanted to do right now is bank on a whole bunch of money because that's all I was doing this for, then all I would do is just go and find more tools to promote to people about Amazon. I wouldn't even care. I do care that’s why I don't do it but I wouldn’t even care if the tool was 100% like what you needed. Like, if I was all about the money, that's what I’d be doing. I’d have sponsors on this show and I'd be just pushing and pushing and pushing, but that's not what I want to do because that's not where I feel my energy and really my, I guess, my calling is.

[00:42:51] Scott: My calling is to help you and myself create a lifestyle business that can support our life and our family, but also doing the things that we want to do. And even though right now the business that you created might not be the business that's going to be the thing that's going to light you up in five years, that might not have happened yet and that's okay. I just think you have to embrace the journey because everything that I learned 15 years ago in business and then after the first five years I learned something new because I changed and I pivoted then, all of that stuff helps me today. So, it's a journey and you have to be willing to open your eyes to it but also, you have to look at yourself or feel internally what's happening and you'll know like you'll know when that time has come.

And like this podcast, it started as me just documenting my journey about how I got started on Amazon but then as I did that, everyone starts to know me as the Amazon guy and I’m like, “Wait a minute here.” One day I’m like, “I don't want to just be the Amazon guy. I want to be like the guy that can help someone start a business from scratch, or someone take their business that's currently doing okay and bring it to a new level. Or like take those skill sets that I know that I can help people with, not just being coined as that person.” But in the beginning, yes, if I niche down like we would do in business if we wanted to go after the bass fishing market, we might want to niche down to the kayak bass fishing market, like that's fine because then it's easier to get in there and get attention. But once you have the attention, then you can kind of then pivot and then go into either a wider, a little bit of a wider area, kind of like what I've done. Like, there are other people out there teaching like how to build a brand. It’s just this is my style. So, why not do that if that's what makes me feel fulfilled and then being able to help people in other areas not just how to sell on Amazon like there’s just so much that you can do there.

[00:44:50] Scott: So, anyway, I'm renting a little bit but I wanted to kind of just share with you my thoughts, and kind of what's happening internally in myself at this point in my life and in my career and I'm going to embrace it. So, a lot of cool things that we've got coming up. This Brand Accelerator Live event in September 2019 which I announced, that's a big one. That's a big one for me. A little a little scary, a little nervous, but I’m going to do it and the reason why I’m going to do it is because it feels right. And if it feels right, then why not go after it? People have told me they want it, but I don't know yet 100% how it's all going to turn out. I think it's going to be amazing but I didn't know also how many people would listen to my podcast, the first episode that I recorded and then I put it out there and then here we are three-and-a-half years later, 11 million downloads, thousands of people all over the world.

I’ve got a whole thank you wall of people that have wrote in and said that I've helped them get started or help them take their business to the next level like it never would've happened if I would've just shut down and if I didn't pivot because, at that time, I wasn't doing any of this stuff. I mean, I was doing my stuff, but I wasn't telling everyone about it. So, that's the difference. So, anyway, yes, it is scary at times when you're thinking to yourself that you want to pivot because you might be taking a little bit of a sidestep but sometimes you have to do that in order to grow and that's what I'm doing here with this Brand Accelerator Live like I'm doing it. I'm also doing a secret project which I'm going to be revealing, fingers crossed, at this Brand Accelerator Live event in September of 2019 and that's something that I'm working on for the next seven to eight months and it's going to be quite a little project and I’m a little nervous about that too but I’m going to do it because I want to and I think that I need to and that's what I'm doing.

[00:46:43] Scott: So, I think you need to look at your own self and trust in that and believe in that, and it doesn't necessarily mean that the thing you're doing today has to be 100% right. It just means it has to feel good for right now that you know in order to get to that next place you need to do this and that's why I'm big on taking action because everything we do is taking action or taking little steps that will then eventually bring us to that next thing and then that will also allow us to step to the next thing. And I'm not saying chasing shiny objects. I’m saying as you evolve as an entrepreneur, things are going to change. They are just going to happen. So, Brand Accelerator Live, why don’t you go over and check that out if you have not went over there and see what it's all about. If you haven't grabbed your ticket yet, please do so if you want to hang out with about 300 other brand-building e-commerce/marketing people.

If you want to do that, definitely join us. I would love to have you and hang out with you for a few days. It's going to be amazing and it's going to be networking. It's going to be relationship building. It's going to be external traffic. It's going to be how to build a real brand, not one that just relies on one channel and I am super excited about it. So, BrandAcceleratorLive.com or you can go to TheAmazingSeller.com/Live or go to the show notes at TheAmazingSeller.com/563 and you can grab all the show notes to today's episode and you can find the link there for Brand Accelerator Live. All right, guys. So, that is it. That is going to wrap it up. Remember, as always, I am here for you, I believe in you, and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, take action! Have an awesome amazing day! And I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.


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