TAS 542 The P.A.C.E Method (4 Pillars Successful Brands Are Using)

What are the building blocks for a successful and long-lasting brand? How can you start putting together your plan to get your brand on track and growing? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they reveal their PACE method for building an engaging and successful brand. PACE is built on the following pillars;

  • Prepare.
  • Attention.
  • Cultivate.
  • Expansion.

Make sure to listen to this episode as the guys walk through each pillar and explain how business leaders like you can use them to build a thriving brand. Have pen and paper ready, you don’t want to miss it!

Put in the time and prepare your brand for success!

Too often people want the results without the hard work. Wouldn’t that be nice? The truth is, anything worth having takes time to build and acquire. Nothing comes easy in life! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris talk about the important pillar of preparation. In many ways, you can think of this step as pouring the concrete foundation of a building. It’s not sexy but it is important! Take your time, do your research – this is a vital phase in building your brand for long-lasting success. Learn more about this pillar by listening to this episode!

Grab the attention of the right people for your brand.

One of the worst things you can do as a business leader is waste time and resources on people who will never connect with your brand. Businesses do this all the time by placing ads in markets that are not relevant to their audience. Don’t make the same mistake! On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they explain why it’s so important to grab the attention of the right people for your brand. An important part of this pillar is knowing who your target audience is and how they behave. Don’t go spending money Facebook ads if your audience is spending all their time over on Instagram! Find out more about how this pillar fits into the PACE method by listening to this engaging episode!

Cultivate a connection with your audience.

Why would your ideal customer choose your brand over your competition? What will happen if your competitor slashes their prices, will you see your target audience flock to them for the better price or will they stay with you? You’ve got to start thinking of ways to connect with your audience if you have any hope for a long-lasting brand. A great way to cultivate a connection with your audience is by telling stories and letting them in on who you are and what you are all about. If you are a single guy to loves to travel and explore, use that! If you are a married woman with kids who love to do crafts and fun projects, use that! The key is to build that personal connection. To hear more about cultivating a connection with your audience, make sure to listen to this episode of The Amazing Seller!

Take your brand to the next level by focusing on expansion.

The business world is filled with stories of organizations that make all the right moves only to see their growth plateau. How can you put a plan in place so that doesn’t happen to your brand? According to Scott and Chris, it all comes down to the last pillar of the PACE method, expansion. Once you’ve fine-tuned your brands approach to connecting with and cultivating your target audience, you’ve to start thinking about long-term success. In what ways can you start diversifying your sales channels? How can you begin to work smarter, not harder? What roles and tasks can you start automating or outsourcing? To hear the full breakdown of this final pillar in the PACE method, listen to this episode!


  • [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast!
  • [2:30] Building brands that last using the P.A.C.E method.
  • [4:00] Pillar #1: Prepare.
  • [8:00] You’ve got to have passion or knowledge of your niche market to succeed.
  • [14:00] An example of a brand the took the time to prepare.
  • [20:00] Pillar #2: Attention.
  • [27:30] Pillar #3: Cultivation.
  • [37:00] Storytelling is the best way to connect with your audience.
  • [41:15] Pillar #4: Expansion.
  • [47:50] Is your brand on PACE?
  • [49:20] Closing thoughts from Scott and Chris.


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TAS 542: The P.A.C.E Method (4 Pillars Successful Brands Are Using)


[00:00:02] Scott: Well, hey, hey, what’s up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of The Amazing Seller Podcast. This is episode number 542 and today I am excited because I’ve got my good friend, Mr. Chris Schaffer, back on and we are going to be talking about…

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…some brand building stuff and it’s some things that we’ve been talking about internally with our team and we are now just about ready to announce it. Actually, we are going to announce it and it’s a little bit of our own methodology. So, Chris Schaffer, are you there my friend?


[00:00:34] Chris: I am and how are you doing?

[00:00:35] Scott: I am doing fantastic and I’m super excited to dive into this because we’ve been having a lot of meetings internally about this and I mean a lot of our listeners here know that we are really talking a lot about brand building so super excited about this. What about you? How you doing?

[00:00:52] Chris: I’m pumped about this and I know I might not sound super excited, but this is a really cool topic and it’s something like you said, Scott, that we’ve been meeting a lot about, we’ve been talking a lot about, we’ve been examining what everybody that we like in terms of brands have been doing and trying to backwards engineer it or I guess the correct term there would be reverse engineer it.

[00:01:13] Scott: Yes. It would.

[00:01:16] Chris: Angela will yell at me for that but it’s one of those things where after sitting down, after having a whole team look at it, we’ve been able to identify some key things that good brands, great brands are all doing and figure out how everything that we’ve been talking about really lays into that structure and I think that’s really important for people and I think it’s going to be a real interesting topic to dive into and I think people are going to get a lot back out of it.

[00:01:39] Scott: Yeah. And here’s the thing though, I want people to understand that this is what we really come up with for our own internal stuff, our brands, and things that we’re working on or even brands that we’re working with and really, is Amazon a great channel to sell products? Absolutely 100% but is that something that you can bank on? Is that something that you can rely on? Not necessarily like there’s a lot of people especially successful brands that are just selling on Amazon that lie awake at night wondering if Amazon is going to pull the carpet out from under them and that’s a scary thing. So, for us and I know you guys have done a lot of consulting in really successful brands, I’ve built some successful brands myself in the past brick-and-mortar, digital, and it really comes down to building brands that last and that’s kind of what our tagline now is that we came up with that we wanted to know, what are we doing? What are we helping people do? What are we helping people build?

Not just a one-off product brand. It’s really building brands that last. And we came up with something that we are calling PACE and it’s our P.A.C.E. method but we’re going to break down those four pillars because we found that our own stuff, brands that we’re working on, and successful brands that we’re not working on but we’ve kind of like took a little bit of closer look at and said what are they doing that makes them successful and what really builds out a good successful brand and a brand that last? And that’s what we’re calling P.A.C.E. and so you’re going to hear us start talking a lot more about this. So, Chris, where do you want to start? Do you want to start with pillar number one and talk about where we came up with the P and what it stands for?

[00:03:27] Chris: Sure. I think, Scott, the background that you laid out there is great. We’re talking about things that make brands successful over the long-term and this really helps us identify where we are in our own brands right now whether that we, like you and I, Scott, or the royal we, everybody listening to this episode and I think that’s important because as we work our way through these four really key pillars, it helps to understand where you are in your business because that lays out the roadmap for you for where you need to go and where you need to grow. And all of these kind of work together but we need to start at the beginning and the beginning is what we’re calling preparation or the foundation. We have to prepare ourselves and that means having a good market selective. We need to understand our big why and that’s something that you’ve talked out on the backend. Before we can do anything else, the preparation pillar is really all about laying the foundation and starting, having a thing that you can start to sell and that means picking a good market, a good product, and having a little bit of a plan. Do you want to dive a little bit more into that?

[00:04:32] Scott: Yeah. When we’re kind of going through this, I’m like alright like what are the components like what are the things that make a good brand or a brand that will last? And what are things that you could look at in your own business right now and say, “Okay. Like, this is what I have that is good and this is what I could work on or what do I come back to and work on?” And really the preparation, the foundation, you can’t do anything until we prepare like if you’re building a brand from scratch, you need to prepare a good foundation, and in that foundation comes a good market like if you don’t have a good market that is buying products then you can’t really sell products that well.

[00:05:14] Chris: I think the other thing in that and I don’t mean to cut you off but I’m actually going to.

[00:05:19] Scott: That’s okay.

[00:05:20] Chris: The other thing in a good market means that it’s a market that’s going to be here in one to three years.

[00:05:24] Scott: Absolutely.

[00:05:27] Chris: And that you have to be able to kind of forward project that. Is it going to be the ADD toy market, the fidget spinner market or is it fishing? Fishing is still going to be around in five years, right?

[00:05:38] Scott: Right.

[00:05:39] Chris: There’s always going to be people buying fishing stuff. There might not be quite as many, but the people who are buying it are still going to be just as passionate. So, is this market going to be here in one year, three years, five years? That this part of picking a good market. Does that make sense?

[00:05:51] Scott: Yeah. It does, and I think one way of even seeing that, we’ve talked about this before in our Product Discovery Bootcamp and we’ve talked about and even some of the other trainings that we’ve done, our workshops and stuff, is really using Google Trends like put in your market. If it’s kayak bass fishing, go ahead and put that in Google Trends and see where it’s been in the past and then see where it’s going and then you can get a good idea. The other thing is that we’ve talked about is going out there and see if there are Facebook groups that are formed or if there are maybe Instagram pages that are being built and what kind of interaction is happening and how long they've been around and those types of things. That's what we’re doing to find that good market but once we find a good market that will be here in three, five, ten years is something that we can build and that we know is going to be here for the long haul, well, then we start asking ourselves what are some good products that this market needs and that will be also around for three, five, years from now?

So, it doesn’t necessarily start with the products. It starts with the market or the niche or the “neesh” depending on where you’re coming from but that’s like the first thing like even if you have a brand right now and it’s doing okay, ask yourself, is your market going to be here today in six months, a year, three years, five? Like, do that projection and see. And if not, you might just have to slightly pivot. It doesn’t mean that your market’s not good. Maybe just that submarket is going to be not as good and then you can pivot into a market that’s going to be here a little bit longer. So, to me, it's all about market and then it's good products. If you don't have good products, then it doesn’t matter. If you don’t have a good product, no one is going to be there to buy it and if you have a crappy product and you’re serving it to a good market, you’re going to know that it’s a bad product very quickly on social.

[00:07:47] Chris: Because they’ll tell you.

[00:07:48] Scott: They will tell you very quickly. So, just again in the preparation and the foundation pillar here, to me it starts with the market, the products, but really and I think we talked a lot about this inside of our meetings was really like figuring out that why like, number one, why do you want to create the business but also why do you want to go into this market? Like why is this something that you feel that you’ll be able to build and grow? It was funny, Chris, I had a friend of mine recently and I posted this on my Instagram story and it’s funny, he watched it after-the-fact but he’s a longtime friend. I did coaching with him, baseball. My son who’s 20 now but we did little league all together and everything, and I haven't talked to him probably four or five years now and he contacted me through Instagram and he asked me. He’s like, “Hey, what’s the secret to basically living like your type of lifestyle?” Because he’s seen me kind of build businesses and stuff.

And I said to him, I said, “Listen, like there’s no secret. The secret really is being willing to go out there and find a market that you’re interested in or that you know that you can go out there and keep pushing even if the times are not good like it’s the right mindset but also what is your skill set? What are you good at that you feel that you can get behind and build?” Because if you’re just doing it like a one-off product or even just two products because you think that it has good sales, you’ll probably run out of steam if the sales aren’t there immediately. Does that make sense, Chris? Like, you don’t have enough drive or the why isn’t there or the passion isn’t there. I don’t think you have to have like a strong passion, but you got to have either a skill set or something that you know that you can use in that business to help you grow the business and that you’re slightly interested in because it’ll make it more interesting.

[00:09:42] Chris: I think for the long term and this is why, Scott, we’re talking about is this going to be around in one year, three years, five years, ten years, the money motivation of that burns out much more quickly than the passion motivation.

[00:09:54] Scott: Absolutely.

[00:09:55] Chris: But it’s not to say that one is necessarily inherently better or worse than the other. But you need to know what your motivation is upfront. If your motivation is just money upfront then you’re going to build the business differently than you would if it’s just spend more time with your family. Or because you’re just passionate about the space. The things that you do in the other three pillars, the other three stages that we’re going to talk about are going to be very different and so you need to understand what your motivation is upfront. And part of that, Scott, also is understanding what assets and strengths that you have, and you said that the minute ago but also what weaknesses you have. What don’t you know? And as we move into the other three pillars, you need to know what you don’t know and it’s funny. There’s a saying in Silicon Valley, if Angel is listening she’s going to laugh, “You don’t know what you don’t know.” It always gets thrown out in tech companies. You don’t know what you don’t know. So, let’s just assume that it’s possible. Well, to run a real business, we have to know what we don’t know. We have to have an understanding of what we don’t know. It’s not to say that you have to become a master in all of those areas but if you do not understand email list building, you either need to figure it out or hire somebody who does.

[00:11:14] Scott: Right.

[00:11:15] Chris: Right? And so, we have to kind of inventory our strengths and our assets and understanding where we’re going to take the brand, really all of that is the foundation. That’s step one. We have to pick a good market, we have to pick good products in that market, and we have to understand who we are and where we want to go before we can do anything else, before we can start to scale anything or try anything other than making a little bit of money by selling. Does that make sense?

[00:11:38] Scott: Yeah. Here’s the thing. Like, if I go back and retrace some of my steps, anything that I’ve done in the past and I’ll use the photography as an example like my wife was interested in photography. I wasn’t at the time like I didn’t really think about it. I wasn’t like into it, but she was. So, we took that and started a part-time business and we were semi-passionate about it. She was, and I was passionate about like figuring out how to get out of my job so we both had like different motivators but I knew that that was going to be something that she was going to stay excited about whether the money came or not. And because of that, it was able to really allow us to keep motivated even when we were slowly building the business because she was going to do it regardless and I look at a lot of people that don’t realize the strengths that they have or the people around them that have that there are opportunities right there staring in the face and all you really need to do is identify it and then from there you need to act on it and then slowly start to build that and understand that there is a process in this thing.

And that’s why Product Discovery Bootcamp, I’ll give a little selfless plug here or shameless I should say, because like that’s exactly what we do. It’s like figuring out something that you could discover and usually products are leading to markets so that’s kind of how we start but once you identify that thing, it’s going to allow you to be able to build something even when it might be slow in the beginning and I mean the big why for me inside of like the preparation, the foundation is really there’s two different ones. There’s one, why do you want to create your own lifestyle or why do want to get out your current job? Like, those are some things you need to figure out, but you also need to figure out why do you want to create this brand in this market? Like, are you an avid like kayak bass fisherman? If you are, that’s why because you have a passion for it and it’s going to come easy for you to do this stuff. And so, you have to identify that. I think that there are two things there that you do have to identify inside of pillar number one. So, I think that’s really important. Any additional thoughts on that before we move on, Chris?

[00:13:52] Chris: I think, Scott, it might help to give an example of somebody’s big why of building their brand and, I mean, the one that comes to mind just offhand is Bulletproof and you and I have talked about this in the past. The Bulletproof Executive, Dave Asprey, you guys may or may not have heard about it. If you’re an avid podcast listener, he pops up all kinds of places. And his whole thing is trying to figure out how to be as healthy and live as long as possible while not being miserable like that’s really what he was. And he was fat, he was overweight, and he figured out some of these different things that really helped him and he’s sharing that with his community of people. But his real purpose is to help make people less miserable. That’s why he’s doing all of the things that he’s doing. He wants everybody that follows his stuff, his mission, the goal, the entire reason he’s building that brand is so that no one has to go through what he went through. So, that they can shortcut all of the stuff that he didn’t get to shortcut through. And he does that by selling some supplements and some fat water and some of these kinds of things and talking about how adding butter and oil to coffee actually increases the performance of it and all these things.

It’s all around helping people shortcut the issues that he went through and helping them live a better life. He could easily just go consult or do something else but that doesn’t achieve his end goal, so you need to know what that is before you can move forward. If his end goal was to go be a lecturer, he could go do that. He could go talk at Harvard and Yale and all of these places and get paid really well to do it. He’s spoken at some Tony Robbins and events on health. He could go get paid big bucks to do that, but his real motivation is to help as many individuals as possible, change their lives. And so, the way that he’s doing that is through products rather than through speaking or selling info products or any of those kinds of things. And so, if we can figure out what our real mission is, that sets the direction for everything else that we do moving forward.

[00:15:45] Scott: Right. Like, even using that as an example like it started with his own thing, his own problem that he was trying to overcome and then as he was doing this research, as he was figuring things out, he’s sharing it, and then now he has this crazy brand that’s doing awesome and so many people know of Bulletproof because it was something that he was passionate about and he went and he figured it out and he shared that and now he’s wanting to take that and share it with the world. Now, it doesn’t have to be that big like I don’t want people to be sitting here thinking like, “Well, I sell a garlic press. How am I going to create this big mission statement?” You don’t have to do that, but you have to understand like maybe you’re going after like all of the chefs out there that are frustrated because of the tools that they get are just not great and they make their job harder like maybe that’s what it is. But you have to figure out there’s got to be something in your market that you can use as your story or your why and then you want to actually start to use that in your email marketing when we get into that stuff and like your storytelling and all of that like that there will connect you to your audience a lot more than not having that.

And as we move forward here in P.A.C.E. as we’re calling it, these four pillars, it’s things that you’re going to be able to do that your competition is not doing and then when people go from Amazon because let’s say yes, Chris, they are buying on Amazon but we all know generally what people are going to do is they’re going to then jump off Amazon for a minute. They’re going to go over and check out your brand, they’re going to learn a little bit more about your brand, and then they’re going to come back to Amazon and maybe purchase even if they don’t purchase on your site. So, by having that there, that still can take a conversion and make it happen on Amazon when it wouldn’t have in the past. So, just I want people to understand that that story, that reasoning doesn’t have to be as big as Chris just described but I could almost guarantee that everyone can have a story especially if you have everything kind of like figured out as far as like why you’re doing what you’re doing. So, I think we’ve talked about that one enough. We will probably do a full episode on that one.

[00:17:56] Chris: Yeah. And I think, Scott, that really leads well into pillar number two because we understand what the mission is. That really helps us start to work our way into pillar number two which is attention, getting attention, moving beyond just the initial let’s get up and sell on Amazon where the people there are buying it. The next step in really scaling this and making this thing bigger and building this out as a brand that’s going to last is getting attention from people who aren’t actively looking for the solution. And this is something you and I have been talking really a lot about and this is where everything like social media and building a website and all these really big scary things that really aren’t that scary once you’ve done them once starts to come in. So, what did you want to dive into regarding getting attention and how that starts to scale people?

[00:18:46] Scott: Okay. Before we jump into pillar number two which is attention, which is that A in P.A.C.E. is I just want to go back to pillar one just for one second. The other thing there’s another thing in there that we want to be able to do – Chris, can you hear that when I’m doing that? I’m like tapping my hands. I shouldn’t be doing that but I’m so like animated here. I can’t do it. If I put my hands in my pocket, I don’t talk the same so I’m sorry if anybody can hear that clapping noise. So, the last thing I just want to mention here is we also want to develop and create a roadmap, a plan. We want to put something in place so then we can say, “Okay. We found the market, we found a few products, we have our why figured out, and now we have to figure out what is the roadmap, what is the plan, and then that will take us into pillar two, three, and four and then we can always come back to pillar number one after we’ve kind of gotten all the pillars kind of established and they’re running. Now, we can start to identify different parts of our business and start to improve upon them.

So, I just want to kind of close off pillar number one like when we figure out the market, the products, our why, then we have to create a plan. We have to create that roadmap then that does lead us into pillar number two which is attention. And, Chris, like you just said, it’s identifying the market and by knowing your market, we’re going to be able to identify the market a lot better and we will to future episodes which will break down like each one of these a little bit deeper so we can kind of drill in and really give you an action plan to move forward but right now I want you to understand like the overview of what this means. So, identifying your market so you can get the attention. If we can’t get the attention of our market, they’re never going to see us. They’re not going to notice. We don’t have eyeballs. We need eyeballs on our brand in order for them to even be able to buy from us. But before we even have them buy from us, we want to do some different things which we’re going to move into pillar number three, once we do that, where we’re going to be able to actually start to connect with those people.

[00:20:49] Scott: But with pillar number two, attention, we want to identify where they are. We want to locate them and then once we identify where they are and locate them and all that, you got to attract them and what I mean by that is we got to get them to raise their hand. How do we get them to raise their hand to say, “Hey, over here. Yeah. I’m interested in kayak bass fishing. Yeah. I totally am,” and we’ve talked about this in our List Building Workshop where we call them lead magnets. I did an episode recently on five different lead magnets that you can use and it’s basically just something that gets their attention that attracts the right people. We don’t want to send out a flyer to everyone in a certain zip code and just take a shot that they’re going to be interested in what we have. We would rather put something out there on the Internet preferably and have them raise their hand and then we’re just speaking to the people that we know are the ones that are interested in our market because we’ve put something out there that attracted that person.

I mean, it’s so much easier to eventually sell if we’re able to identify the right people in our market. So, attention is a big one. Like, we need the attention in order for those people to be aware of our brand and then obviously there are tools that come in there is how to make that all happen but don't worry about that right now. Right now, we just need to worry about attention and I think once you identify the market then you need to locate the market then we can talk about what they need and what they want that will allow them to raise their hand. What did you want to add to that, Chris?

[00:22:20] Chris: So, I think the big thing a lot of people get caught up on, Scott, is the tactical implementation of this but quite honestly, if you nailed the strategic stuff which is what you were just talking about, the tactical implementation is easy. If I know who my audience is, what they need, what they want, what they desire, who that avatar is, that customer “avatar,” what does Joe the fisherman actually want, how does he speak, that makes it really easy for me to then go, “Well, he’s not on Pinterest.” He’s on Facebook and I know that because he’s in this demographic and I was able to find a whole bunch of groups there.

That lets me narrow down the tactical implementation stuff to just figuring out Facebook instead of trying to figure out Facebook and Pinterest an Instagram and Snapchat and Twitter and all these other things that I might have to master. Maybe I just have to figure out how to run a Facebook ad and I start with just targeting guys 46 to 64, I’m making this up, that love fishing and own a boat or something like that. And if we’re able to identify them, it makes the location attraction. And then the tactical stuff, how do I speak to them? What words do I use? What’s the vernacular? That stuff becomes a lot easier and I think there’s a good episode, Scott, and I want to say it’s like 423 and I think it was you and Joel and it was like the five questions you must ask to find your audience and to get people who are going to knock down your door and buy everything that you have.

[00:23:57] Scott: That was a great memory by the way. I just punched that in and you’re exactly right. Yes, it’s the five questions you must ask to find an audience that will knock down your door to buy everything you sell. Exactly.

[00:24:05] Chris: That’s my one nugget for the day.

[00:24:07] Scott: Yeah. That was good.

[00:24:09] Chris: And I think that’s really important and it’s something that everybody should go back and listen to if they haven’t already and if you guys already have some products up and you’re establishing and you’re really trying to figure out how to get attention, that might be a good place to start for you. And we’ll dive into more of this stuff here in future episodes but that’s one that you can go listen to right now and kind of get your ears around.

[00:24:29] Scott: Absolutely. I would also recommend our workshop for building a list because we do go into the attention, we talk about communicating a little bit, but we talk really about like and also like how things get put together and what are the building blocks of putting something together. But I would definitely go through that free training, TheAmazingSeller.com/BuildList and we’ll link it up in the show notes as well which this episode show notes, I should have already said that, is TheAmazingSeller.com/545. So, all the show notes, the links will be dropped in there, so you guys can go back and check this stuff out because, again, I want you guys to understand that what we’re doing and again you guys are willing to come along. You guys are willing to jump in and kind of get behind this I guess you can say this movement if you will of us really going out there and helping people build brands that last like that’s what we want. That’s what we know will be here today and be here tomorrow. I don’t want to put a lot of energy into something that’s going to work for three months.

It’s just not worth it for me and it’s really not that exciting for me because I want to build something and help people build something that will be here and that will last through decades, and also teaching you the skill sets that I feel you can plug into any business now or in five years from now. There are things right now that I've learned, Chris, there are things that you’ve learned right now just from doing things in previous businesses that have worked, that’s still working out. I mean we’re talking about list building. I did that eight, nine years ago doing the same darn thing and it still works. There are things have changed, tools have changed, all that stuff, but I want you guys to really wrap your hands around doing this and building something that will be here today but also be here tomorrow. So, building brands that last, that is what we are going for. So, Chris, is there anything else you want to add on pillar number two for the attention pillar? So, again, we went through pillar number one is preparation/foundation and then number two is attention. Number C, Chris?

[00:26:38] Chris: Number C?

[00:26:39] Scott: Or number – pillar number three, C.

[00:26:44] Chris: Starts with a C so that’s fine. The last thing on pillar two, Scott, just to go back there fast then, this is kind of where you and I have talked the most recently. This is where you’re going to be building your list whether that’s an email list, the Messenger list, your Facebook, phone, whatever that is, whatever that medium is that you’re going to use to communicate, that’s kind of where that starts to happen. So, we need to understand who they are, where they are, and how we talk to them in that stage but it’s not necessarily enough to do that if we want to have a long-term brand and that’s something you and I get emails about all the time. It’s like, “Oh, I built this launch list and I send them one email.” That’s great. But what you need to do to continue to grow that brand is what we’re going to talk about in pillar three.

[00:27:31] Scott: Yeah. So, pillar number three or should I say what is number three, Chris?

[00:27:38] Chris: Is cultivation.

[00:27:39] Scott: Yes. Cultivation, so number C. No, that’s pillar three.

[00:27:45] Chris: Numero C.

[00:27:45] Scott: Yes, C. Yes, that is the cultivation. So, why don’t you dig into that a little bit?

[00:27:50] Chris: So, this is the stage or the pillar because all of these are kind of interchangeable in when we see people doing them. I would prefer to go from one to four but that doesn’t always happen in business, right, where you’re going to be truly creating a connection with that audience. We’re planting all of those seeds and then we’re cultivating them into big blossoming plants that love our brand. That’s really what we’re doing, and this is where we’re creating individual connections with people and we do that through communication, through storytelling, through personality, through a shared mission I think is really important and again going back to like the Bulletproof example.

If you want to be healthier, that’s a shared mission that you have with Dave, and that creates an instant connection and it helps to cultivate that relationship between you and the brand and you and Dave personally just because he happens to be the face of that brand. This is where like the teaching and educating and really having a blog, all of those kinds of things really start to come in but also understanding where your audience starts and where you need to take them like a little bit of an audience journey, really nailing the lingo and understanding all of the terms that they use and exactly how they speak and then getting feedback from your audience is a part of this as well because when they feel like they’re involved in the process, they create a much bigger stronger bond with your brand. Does that make sense?

[00:29:15] Scott: It does, and I want to give a real example here. I mean, okay, this podcast, I started this thing just myself and a few listeners and basically people coming along on the journey and I’m attracting the right people and kind of like repelling some of the ones that wouldn’t necessarily be a good fit. So, just think about that for a second like right now I’m talking about like, hey, and actually I said this probably, I don’t know, 20 episodes ago where I’m going to do a little bit of a pivot. It’s not going to be just focused on Amazon. When I started the podcast, it was talking a lot about just Amazon because that’s kind of what I was testing and what I was playing in as far as the sandbox like I was doing that but then I’m like, “Wait a minute here. There’s a lot more to this than just selling products on Amazon and I think people should know that.” Now, if you want to just go out there and find the next hack for Amazon or the next tactic or any of that stuff then I’m probably not going to be the right guy for you or TAS isn’t going to be the right fit for you.

But now by us talking about like we’re moving into this building brands, that last direction, some of you are going to say, “Awesome. I want to come along with you on this journey,” and then some might be saying, “No, I just want to go focus on dominating Amazon, just build my own business there.” And that’s fine but that’s not going to be 100% who I’m attracting. So, just think about that for a second. This communication, using the podcast, using email. If you read any of the emails that I sent, if you listen to the podcast which you are right now, if you listen to any YouTube or watching the YouTube like any of that stuff you’re hearing more of this and you’re hearing me share examples in our new mastermind right now that we have, our TAS inner circle. You’re hearing about us working with brands that are building brands and what we’re suggesting, what we’re advising like I’m taking you along the journey and then as we’re doing this we’re building it together.

[00:31:15] Scott: So, we’re building a community together and you can’t really get focused on the numbers because a lot of times people are like, “Well, I don’t have thousands.” You don’t need thousands. You need a few 100 maybe and you can build a really successful brand because those people will promote your brand for you and then you will reach thousands. So, I just kind of wanted to share that, Chris, because I think it’s important for people to think about like how you take the attention and then how you cultivate or do the cultivation is where you’re connecting with the people, you’re teaching and educating, and then you can sell. And when you sell, it’s not really selling. It’s just saying like, “Hey, some additional resources are over here to help you. If you want them, here they are. If not, here are some free stuff.” And it’s kind of like you’re helping someone before you’re asking for the sale but you’re still helping them. You’re not holding anything back. So, I just wanted to share that because I think it’s important for people to understand a real example and this podcast and The Amazing Seller is exactly that. The Amazing Seller is creating you as a great business but helping you create your own self as the amazing seller in all aspects of your life. So anyway, just want to share that, a little bit of a side note.

[00:32:24] Chris: I think touched on something important. People get hung up on the numbers there, right? I need to have, “Scott and Chris, you have 28,000 people in your email list. That’s why your new brand is successful.” Well, here’s the deal, not all 28,000 of those people are our ideal customer. They’re not all the perfect person for us. But 100 of them share everything that we put out and that multiplies everything that we do. It’s the multiplier of finding 50, 100 or 1,000 true fans and I think if people haven’t ever read that article or seen an explanation of 1,000 true fans, that they should go take a look at that. It’s Kevin Kelly I believe.

[00:33:06] Scott: Yeah. We’ll link it up.

[00:33:07] Chris: It’s almost ten years old at this point.

[00:33:10] Scott: Yeah. It’s been revised I think a little bit but, yeah, I mean it’s 100%.

[00:33:14] Chris: But really to be successful in business, the whole point of the article, I’ll give you guys the gist but it’s worth reading through is that if you find 1,000 true fans, your business will be successful and in order to do that we need this third pillar, we need to create this connection through cultivating those relationships just like you would one-on-one. Now, we have to try to do that at scale but that means being a human being and we talk about this in some places like list building workshop. The ways that we do this are by sharing stories, not by sending Best Buy style emails. Our emails that we send in our brands are very personal. We have inside jokes with our audience. We have all of these things. We share what happened this weekend and, Scott, I’m going to throw you under the bus. Here you do the same thing, not throw you under the business, but use you as an example. You do the same thing in your weekend now. You find something that was going on in your life and you talk about it and then you link it back to a lesson that it taught you on business and that creates cultivation and connection with the audience. Whether you are doing it intentionally or not is completely irrelevant but if we do it intentionally, it makes everything we do a lot easier and quite frankly a lot better and a lot more real because it lets us create true connection with those fans. And it might not be with all 28,000. You might get some hate mail if you misplace the location.

[00:34:45] Scott: Yes, that’s a true story.

[00:34:46] Chris: Or if you misplace a comma in some cases. I mean, we’ve gotten some hate mail in the new brand because I didn’t, or I added what they thought was an extra comma and then it really isn’t because the Oxford comma should be there, and it exists for a reason but that’s a completely different conversation. It’s like, okay, well, I’ll just go ahead and unsubscribe you because you clearly missed the intent of the email if you’re hung up on the fact that I used a serialized comma like you’re probably not for me but the other 500 responses that we got to that email were all positive.

[00:35:20] Scott: Here’s the question. Would that person be at your backyard barbecue? Probably not.

[00:35:25] Chris: Probably not.

[00:35:26] Scott: So, they don’t belong there, right? Like, that’s always what I think about and on anything that I’m working on. Generally, I want, not generally, always I want to connect with people that I would want to sit down and have coffee with or have a beer with or whatever like that’s who I’m searching for and that’s who I want to speak with. When people are critiquing like again if my English teacher seeing some of the ways that I write, it’s not at all the way that you should write.

[00:35:56] Chris: Saw.

[00:35:58] Scott: Yeah. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So, it’s like and if I thought about that so if I would never speak, I would never have made this podcast, I wouldn’t have helped change people’s lives. It just wouldn’t happen because I would be thinking too much. I wouldn’t push out emails or send emails. I wouldn’t push out content. I wouldn’t do it and you’re always going to get that stuff and that’s okay, but you have to be willing to take it. So, what I did want to say though, Chris, is like when I’m thinking about like doing this stuff and in anything that I’m doing and, in the beginning, it was hard because I was kind of always a little stiff. I didn’t know. I was afraid that I was going to send the wrong email or I was going to get that email back saying like, “You screwed up. You’re an idiot.” I was always afraid of that stuff. Once I removed that and I gave myself permission to just be myself and know that there’s a lot of people that are like me that would make errors or mistakes, that’s fine.

But even on my emails that I read on Friday like I don’t really think about how I’m going to tie things together anymore. It just kind of flows because I’ve done it so much but the one thing I always try to start with is a story. I try to start with a story. How is there a story that, I mean, all of us have stories. Every week like I’ll give you one right now that just happened yesterday really quickly and I could tie it into, if I was selling kayak bass fishing stuff, I have a pond in my backyard, a pretty good-sized pond, and people would come and they bring these little Jon boats and there’s a two-man boat and there’s no more motors allowed in that pond. It’s right on the golf course and they basically dump their boats in there and then they go out fishing. They go around the edge. Well, yesterday there was a kayak in there bass fishing as I was barbecuing, and I pointed it out to my father who’s here visiting, and I said, “Look, there’s a kayak bass fishing. We talk about that stuff all the time.” So, I could share that story and say, “Hey, yesterday I was barbecuing with the family. My father was visiting from Florida,” yada, yada, yada, go through the whole thing.

[00:37:58] Scott: And be like, “And then I was looking out in my pond and there’s a guy out there kayak bass fishing, made me want to kayak bass fish and I couldn’t because I had family over or whatever but, man oh man, I really can’t wait to go try my new rod or whatever,” like I could’ve tied that into a story in my kayak bass fishing brand so easily. I could’ve talked about, if I was that guy that actually dropped the boat in there and did some fishing, I could’ve given my example or my experience of what happened that night. Did I catch any fish? Why didn’t I catch fish? What new lures did I try? I could’ve did that stuff. It would’ve been so easy to then wrap it into a piece of content that could push sales. So, anyway, that was just something that happened to me just the other night.

[00:38:37] Chris: So, Scott, what if you’re not the face of the brand? Can you still do this?

[00:38:40] Scott: Absolutely. You can write if you want and not be the face. You can actually be a face but not be on camera or you can find someone else that is that kayak bass fishing person. I mean the guy that dropped his boat in, I see this truck part. He’s got a big giant largemouth bass in the back of his truck. You think he likes to bass fish? It’s like that’s his thing. So, find someone else that is. I’ve talked about this before. Go out there and offer to pay them to sit down and pick their brain for an hour. Do you think that someone that is they’re working their job, maybe they’re comfortable, but you throw them $100 to sit down and record some videos or get some content or record some audio and have it transcribed in the content? Like, there are so many different things that you could do.

All right. So, this is the cultivation part and I know we can go a whole hour on this stuff which we probably will but let’s just kind of wrap up this pillar because I see any brand that is successful in my eyes that’s here for the long haul is really doing the cultivation right like connecting, teaching, educating, and then selling and getting the feedback, building that community, those thousand true fans, all of that, I see that in most of the brands. Now, other brands like Walmart, that’s not the same to me. We’re talking about like smaller brands and a smaller brand could be a million-dollar brand but I’m just saying like we’re not like this big Best Buy. We’re talking about a brand that could have all of these different components and then you don’t have to really compete because you’re being sold or your products are being sold through you or your brand or your mission or the overall brand itself.

[00:40:22] Chris: I think that’s a really important point and I don’t want to gloss. I want to wrap this up for everybody so we’re not on talking to them for hours but when you look at something like Best Brand, Best Buy.

[00:40:33] Scott: Best Brand. That’s a new one.

[00:40:35] Chris: You know, I’m sure there are a handful of people who say, “I will only ever buy my televisions from Best Buy.” But there’s not many. If they’re going to get a better deal at Sears, at H. H. Gregg, at Fry’s, they’re going to go to Fry’s and get it. What we want to do over the long-term is not have to compete on price. We don’t want to have to play that game. We want to compete on value and the way that we compete on value and the way that we become the go-to brand for X, Y or Z is by creating connection and telling stories and being consistent with what we teach and how we educate.

[00:41:18] Scott: I love it. Okay. Let’s move on. Pillar number four is E and that is expansion. That is where we want to expand, we want to scale, and all of that stuff. All right. So, let’s dive in here. So, where do you want to start on this one, Chris? I mean, we can go on a whole bunch of different directions but we kind of have a list of what we want to talk about but what does expansion mean?

[00:41:41] Chris: So, expansion really is any area of your business that we’re trying to grow so this is a little bit of diversification in terms of channels. You guys have heard us talking in the past about not being channel reliant. We don’t want to ever be reliant just on our own website or just on Amazon or just one thing because if one thing goes away then so does our business. So, this is really about creating the long-term stability in terms of sales for one but the other one would be scaling out our product lines. Let’s scale those up, find some products that are not necessarily those core three to five that we started with but that makes sense with the brand. The other side of expansion for me, Scott, is also like the productivity side of this. So, not only in this pillar are we diversifying our products and our sales methods but we’re doing some automation and building our team and trying to find some leverage and all of these things that we need to do in order to expand everything that we’re doing. Does that make sense?

[00:42:39] Scott: Yeah. And I think some people think of like productivity is like getting up in the morning and doing the right thing and that is but we’re talking about like how do you streamline your business once you get to a certain level? And in every hour you can shave off, then that helps build your brand is more time for you and you’re not working in the brand so much working on the brand but not in the brand and that’s really what we’re talking about at that stage. And what I want people to understand is like let’s say for example you have pillar one, two, and three kind of going and it’s working, well, then you move on to pillar number four which is the expansion. Okay. How can I leverage this? Or how can I add more revenue to the business? Well, you’d add a new product. Well, by adding a new product that’s also going to then create probably a little bit more work because now you have to order more or your inventory management is going to come into place.

So, that’s where we kind of get into that stuff as far as expansion goes. We want to expand the product line because obviously that’s going to bring in more revenue but as we bring in more revenue and as we build the brand, you’re going to have to start thinking about automation or hiring a team member and that type of stuff. So, that’s really what we want to do in the expansion pillar and what I love about using this methodology if you will, P.A.C.E., is really about taking these four pillars and you can write them down and you can list them out and no matter where you are in your business, you can pick one of these and probably work on one of these and you could probably see which one is the one that you should work on first that will move the needle. And you can go right back to pillar one. If you’re doing pretty well and you’ve got a good foundation, you can still probably refine your why maybe and maybe craft a little bit of a better story or maybe you need to take your roadmap and adjust it a little bit or maybe you need to look at your products and if they’re not good, you got to make them better.

[00:44:44] Scott: Your market, you may need to look at your market and go, “You know what, maybe I got to niche down a little bit because I’m too broad right now and eventually I will go that way,” and then you do that. Or maybe you’re in pillar number two and you’re like, “Okay. I’m on the attention side of things. I kind of got that going but I wanted to move into the next pillar.” Now you go back there and you start to really narrow down that target audience that you’re going after or refining that or maybe you’ve discovered now that it’s really that wasn’t the market that you thought it was. Maybe you’re building your avatar or your ideal person in that market and really you were thinking they were a 50-year-old male and it’s really a 30 to a 40-year-old male. Well, now we got to adjust that a little bit as far as like what’s going to attract them or how to communicate with them in the pillar number three.

So, I just think that every one of these is really important. You don’t have to perfect them, but you do need to look at your business, break it down into these four pillars, and see where you can make these adjustments and really start to turn the dial in your business. That’s what I see, Chris, here as far as like using our P.A.C.E. methodology.

[00:45:49] Chris: Yeah. I think it’s really interesting because you and I or anybody can really lay this over any business that they’re taking a look at whether it’s theirs or somebody else’s and say, “Oh, I see why your revenue isn’t growing. We have good products. We have a good market. We’re not getting enough attention.” Or, “Dude, we have 800,000 emails. What are we doing with them? Well, we’re not creating a connection. We’re not telling a story. We’re not being consistent with how we educate. Okay. Well, let’s do that.” Or, “Hey, we’re on Amazon. We’re ranking number one for everything so our preparation, our foundation there is set. Now, and we have 800,000 emails so let’s just use that number again. We’re creating a good connection. Well, now we need to expand. We need to build sales funnels and we need to do all of these kinds of things or maybe we just need to free up some of your time by hiring somebody to manage the product over because you’re spending nine hours a week doing that.” Once you have all four of these kind of in place and you understand where you are in your business, it makes it really easy to go back and tweak the dials to increase the numbers that you want to see increased based on your one, three, five, 50-year roadmap.

[00:46:52] Scott: Yeah. And I think building out that roadmap or the plan, the action plan if you will is really important but understand too that that can be adjusted like you don’t have…

[00:47:04] Chris: It will be.

[00:47:04] Scott: And it will be, but you do need to have that roadmap. You do need to have something and you probably want to continue to refine it but then also put another maybe 90-day sprint in there like what are you going to work on for the next 90 days in one of these pillars or maybe parts of each of these pillars? Or whatever it is that you can put a plan in place and then execute and head down only focus on that, to me, will move and drive your business. And you and I and the rest of the team we talked about like a cool little saying or something and we had some fun with this but it’s kind of like the way that I look at it is like is your business on P.A.C.E.? It’s kind of cheesy but it’s kind of cool. Is your business on P.A.C.E. to be successful? And I like it because when we were kind of coming up with like these four pillars, it really started to make sense and we spent hours really going through. We started with like five pillars. We’re like, “It really doesn’t need five pillars, right? Expansion is kind of like it’s its own but there’s a couple of components in there that could probably be in the expansion so let’s just make it simple.”

Like you said, Chris. You could overlay this on pretty much any business and then you can look at each one of these pillars and you can kind of see like what they’ve done and what they can do to improve it and I love it. So, we’re going to go with it so building brands that last is really our model. That’s what we are moving forward with and using this P.A.C.E. method is really also we’re going to be using and you’re going to hear a lot more about it and we will be teaching inside of these pillars as we move forward on the podcast, on YouTube. I’ve been doing a lot of whiteboard videos lately on YouTube. Definitely check out the YouTube channel, TheAmazingSellerTV.com that will take you right there. Subscribe if you want visuals of this. I will be drawing stuff out on the whiteboard. I’ve already done a lot of list building stuff there, so you can find that there, but this stuff is all important to me and I know it’s important to brands that want to go out there and they do want to last and really build something that they can be proud of. So, Chris, what do you want to wrap up with before we sign off here today?

[00:49:22] Chris: I think the last thing, Scott, and I think the other thing that’s funny about this little P.A.C.E. thing that we’ve been talking about is you and I have always said that this is not a sprint. This is a marathon. We’re not going to build a million-dollar business overnight. It just doesn’t happen and if you think it does, you really need to dig into that business a little bit more because chances are they’ve been doing all of this stuff behind the scenes. But the thing that’s kind of interesting about this little saying that we have is that it really is what we’re doing. We’re keeping on P.A.C.E. We’re trying to set a cadence if you will or a rhythm to the stuff that we’re doing and in doing that, we’re able to scale all four of these pillars to a place that we’re comfortable whether that’s a lifestyle business, whether that’s the large exit, whatever that is for us. Doing these four things, having these four pillars in place are what’s going to make whatever your brand’s big why is possible for you.


[00:50:21] Scott: Yeah. I love it. So, guys, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to give you the link one more time for the list building workshop because I think that’s a great place to start especially because that does talk about your attention and it talks about the cultivation and I think that’s really important to at least understand that because a lot of people get stuck there so I would definitely recommend checking that out and that could be found at TheAmazingSeller.com/BuildList and you can check that out like I said totally free and it will all walk you through how to identify the market, how to get attention, and then what to really deliver to those people so this way here you can eventually lead to a sale. And in the future, we will be doing more content on all four of these pillars, the P.A.C.E. method as we’re calling it so definitely check out the show notes as well because all of this will be linked there inside of this episode, TheAmazingSeller.com/542 and you can get all of that there. So, Chris, I think we’re going to wrap this up. Are you ready to wrap it up?

[00:51:23] Chris: Let’s do it.

[00:51:24] Scott: All right. Guys, as always, remember, I’m here for you, I believe in you, and I’m rooting for you, but you have to, you have to, come on, say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, Chris is going to say it with me on the count of three today. You ready, Chris?

[00:51:37] Chris: Let’s do it.

[00:51:37] Scott: One, two, three, take action!

[00:51:39] Chris: Take action!

[00:51:41] Scott: Have an awesome amazing day! And I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.


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