TAS 438 How to SELL products to Your Email List without being Sleazy (Swipe Copy Included)

Don’t you hate it when you know someone is just trying to make a buck off of you? Of course, you do! Then why do so many business leaders out there in the marketplace today continue to use sleazy tactics? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they share helpful tips that will empower you to sell your brand to eager customers without coming off as being sleazy. Do business the right way with honesty and integrity! To hear how you can get your business started on the right foot, make sure to catch this informative episode!

Connecting with people

One of the most difficult aspects of building a business online is losing sight of the human element. Whether it’s dealing with contractors, suppliers, or your clients, it’s vital to remember to treat the individual like a person who is worth your kindness and respect. On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris open up about the importance of connecting with people in a way that communicates you care. If you really want to stand out from the competition, taking your time to be considerate, kind, patient, and helpful goes a long way in the ecommerce business community. To hear more about this subject, make sure to listen to this episode!

Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook

If you want to create raving fans of your brand, you’ve got to provide them with value! It’s not just about the value you create in providing a good quality product, you’ve also got to provide them with good resources and information so they learn to trust you as an authority. On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris explain how sellers like you can build off of valuable content and earn credibility with your fans. Don’t overthink the process! Find out how you can make an impact move toward solid business growth by listening to this episode!

Tell Stories!

An easy way to tell that someone just wants to sell something to you is if they have a lack of personality to their approach. You’ve been there, haven’t you? When a salesperson shares all the stats and figures but they never tell a story or try to connect with you on a personal level. On this episode of The Amazing Seller, you’ll hear from Scott and Chris as they explain the value of telling stories and letting your personality shine through. You don’t have to be perfect, in fact, people will connect better if you embrace your quirkiness. Don’t be afraid to let your guard down and show who you are to your audience. To hear more about how to tell stories and make a personal connection with your customers, make sure to listen to this episode!

How to craft a compelling “Hook”

What does it take to really bring in your audience and make them interested in the content you provide via your email list? Do you have to go the super sleazy route in order to succeed? On this episode of The Amazing Seller, Scott and Chris breakdown how sellers like you can craft a compelling “Hook” to draw your customers to your content. When you are connecting with your customers via email, you’ve got to make your message stand out. One of the best ways to do that is to ask a question or make a bold statement. You can also provide interesting content like DIY (Do it yourself) projects. To hear more helpful tips from the guys on how to make your content stand out, listen to this episode!


  • [0:03] Scott’s introduction to this episode of the podcast!
  • [1:30] Scott and Chris go over the numbers they’ve acquired from building a list.
  • [4:30] Remember, you are connecting with people.
  • [9:00] The struggle with delivering non-monetary value.
  • [14:00] Why stories are so effective and how to connect with your emails.
  • [19:30] Send out weekly content to your email list.
  • [23:30] Crafting a “Hook” to draw your audience in.
  • [30:00] Sell the open and the click.
  • [36:30] Applying email writing lessons to social media posts.
  • [41:30] Common mistakes sellers make when sending emails.
  • [47:00] Scott recaps six steps to grow your brand via email lists.


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TAS 438: How to SELL products to Your Email List without being Sleazy (Swipe Copy Included)


[00:00:03] Scott: Well hey, hey what’s up everyone! Welcome back to another episode of The Amazing Seller Podcast. This is episode number 438 and today we are going to be talking about how to sell…

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…products to your email list without being sleazy. Yeah, that’s right, without being a sleaze bag. We are going to actually talk about that, we are going to give you guys some copy, actually some email swipe copy that you guys can use. We are going to read through it, we are going to talk about really the structure but then also how it can be done without being sleazy. I think that’s the big one and I’ve got my good friend on Mr. Chris Shaffer. What’s happening my friend?

[00:00:39] Chris: Not too much brother what’s going on with you?

[00:41:00] Scott: Well, not much. We are hanging out getting ready to do this thing and I know you and I have been talking quite a bit this week on some things that we have planned for TAS which I’m pretty excited about so guys you are going to have to stay tuned for that. We’ve got some cool content getting ready here and pretty excited about that to be honest with you Chris. But today I’m excited about talking about email list stuff. As everyone knows you and I geek out about this stuff but the reason is is because we actually believe that it works because we have proof that it works right Chris? I mean what are our numbers at right now for our most recent contest to build our email list?

[00:01:20] Chris: Well let me hit refresh on this page but last time I looked, yes we are at 5,216 net entries.

[00:01:29] Scott: Okay and let's just give people a little snapshot as far as okay we have these emails now, these are our new emails that we are building a list. Why are we building that list again Chris?

[00:01:42] Chris: We are building a list for a couple of big reasons Scott. The first is it’s the best way at least in our opinion to launch a product. Any time we are launching a new product on Amazon we are building a list for it if it's inside of a brand but the real reason is the long term value of that list. And this is something that’s happened online for quite a while everybody knows that an email list is the secret to that value. It’s been one of those things since the early days of the internet that has been consistent. It’s a traffic source that we control and that’s the real reason behind why we are building a list. We want to have a group of people that we can reach out to no matter what happens in this crazy internet world.

If Amazon went away tomorrow we’d still have in this case 5,200 people although we are adding them to an existing list so it’s closer to sixteen thousand people that are fans of our products so if Amazon were to disappear we could simply point them to a new direction and they could still buy our stuff while we figure out how to deal with it. And so having that ability, that long term asset and the fact that actually talking to these people through emails builds real relationships which is something you can’t do in a lot of other mediums online is extremely powerful and so we build it for those reasons.

[00:02:54] Scott: Yeah, again I think some people think, “I’m going to build the email list, I’m going to launch the product and then from there I’m pretty much done with that email list.” And that’s really what I want to talk about today and I want to go into really some examples but also give some structure as far as the different components and really that we are not just building an email list to build an email list we are building it in our market where we can then educate, we can also get feedback, we can get all of those things. So there is more to having the email list than just selling product.

There is also, and this is a big one Chris we get this all the time, what do I send my email list? We are going to actually give you some emails that you can guys can model and get inspiration from and you can use them to get yourself moving. Also that you need to understand that when you are sending email you are sending it to a person. You are not just sending it to someone out there that’s a number you are sending it to a person and there’s a lot of things that that person can do other than just buy things. So the first thing that I want to mention is… Well actually the first that I want to mention Chris is the show notes to this episode. That’s what I want to mention because we are going to have some swipe copy, you are probably going to want to go there check out the show notes.

Head over to theamazingseller.com/438 and that will give you the transcripts, the links, all the notes and any swipe copy that we give you guys which we are going to give you a couple of examples here. We are going to talk about emails that get great opens which again we are going to be talking about. But the first thing that I want people to really understand Chris is that, and I just said it and I’m going to say it again, understand there is more than just selling. These are real people like real people and there’s a lot of different things that those people can do. Number one, they can share with others and people don’t think of that Chris. They think to themselves, “Well they didn’t buy, they are no good to me.” That’s not the case.

[00:04:54] Scott: How powerful is it? And Chris you can probably give us an example here of how this happened to us. We actually sent an email and then one of our subscribers ended up sharing that. What happened Chris when that happened?

[00:05:07] Chris: Which time? That’s happened to us several times but basically we went from what we thought was going to be a nice little product launch. We were going to sell 50 or 100 units we sold several hundred units and it's happened over and over and over again and we can almost always trace a big spike like that to someone in our audience sharing a piece of content which is really cool for us. And so any time we send out a piece of content we brace ourselves to see what’s going to happen in the new brand because even if they don’t buy from us they might share in a group of their friends who might need that product.

One of the things that people miss in email and you brought it up a little bit earlier is, “Oh I already emailed them about it I don’t need to email them again.” Well this is a mistake that I don’t just see in TAS or people in the Amazon space or the ecommerce space. I’ve seen this for years in the businesses that we consulted with even five six years ago. You walk into a large company that has three hundred thousand email addresses and they haven’t emailed them in a year and it's because, “Well we don’t have anything to send them.” Well there is always something to send them. Just because you don’t have a sale doesn’t mean that that’s the only way that you use the email list. There is a lot of different things, we have a lot of different objectives as a company and the call to action is not always and should not always be buy something.

We send emails and Scott this is a big marketing no, no with no real call to action. It’s just, “Here is some value.” Guess what the call that call to action is? “Go check out the cool stuff we are giving you for free.” That the call to action. It doesn’t have to be this big elaborate thing and I think there’s a few things that people run into in terms of hurdles. One is, what do I send people and two why would anybody want to hear from me are probably two of the biggest ones. If I don’t have something to sell them why do people want to hear from me? So I think we are going to talk through both those as well.

[00:06:58] Scott: Yeah absolutely and it's funny, we are talking about an email list but this also goes really well with a Facebook fan page, a Facebook group, even Instagram. We are talking about number one delivering value, getting people’s attention and that attention is what we normally call a hook in a sense that gets people to open up their eyes and their ears and say, “Okay wait a minute here, this is interesting to me because it pertains to me and this hobby that I have or this thing that I have.” And so when you do that you can do it on not just your email list or with your email list, you can do it on all other aspects of your channels if you will and it’s really important that you understand that.

It’s about communicating with people in a way that will allow them to know that you are there but then also for them to say, “Wow this is cool I want to keep opening or keep seeing this in my feed or in my inbox because they are either funny or they made me smile today or they gave me a great tip or they have a great product they give me discounts.” All of that stuff comes back in. The other thing I want to highlight here Chris is we mentioned that number one they are real people, they can share with others which we have done numerous times, our list has. They can also help give feedback and we’ve done this on new products and actually the one time that I can remember that we did it we were putting a design out in front of our Facebook fan page and we also asked our email list to go over to Facebook and then let us know.

And they basically voted down the one that we were thinking they were going to want and because of that we didn’t order that type of product or that style so that’s a big one Chris as far as like getting that feedback or that feedback loop. You want to talk about anything there before we move on?

[00:08:47] Chris: Yeah I think that feedback is important but before we talk about that I think that one of the hurdles that people run into and you were just talking about this is it’s an intangible. The whole content giving value thing is really an intangible and that’s why I think people struggle with it. If I send an email that’s a sales email I know exactly how many dollars came from that and I can say whether it worked or didn’t but with the content stuff if we are just trying to give value that’s when that becomes a little harder and that’s why I think so many people struggle with it. But what you see over time is that that stuff obviously produces value because it increases the open rates or on Facebook it increases the number of people who are willing to share and engage with you because you are creating a real genuine relationship with people and not just shoving stuff down their throat.

And that value, that relationship is really what creates that feedback loop for you whether it’s a piece of content and what’s going to work well in terms of stuff that we should create and share whether it’s the product stuff like, “Okay I now trust this audience because they engage with me. I’ve seen this guy comment on everything so I actually care about his opinion because he’s bought every one of my products. Here is what my ideal customer is saying that they want and here is how we think they product should be. Maybe we should air on the side of what the person who actually wants to buy it is saying.” And so again it comes back to showing that value but it’s not necessarily tangible until you get it to a place where you are sending another sales email or you are asking specifically for feedback. Does that actually make sense?

[00:10:18] Scott: Yes it does and again we are talking about getting that feedback but then also when you get the feedback it can help to leverage your next product launch or you are leveraging them for your next product launch because they are telling you what they want so just for people to understand that it’s not just about the sale. So many people base off the numbers what did the email do as far as bottom line. The other thing is I have here on  my notes that I want to make sure that we mention here and it goes hand in hand with what we talked about was they may buy in the future maybe not now.

So even though they don’t buy now it’s okay because they may share now or they may just consume now. They might not be ready right now, maybe they are busy right now but then in four weeks from now or six weeks or maybe six months from now they buy in the future. As long as they are on your email list, as long as they are on your Facebook page, group, whatever you still have that connection. You still have the way or a way to communicate with them so to me it’s about delivering that value, keeping them or keeping yourself front of mind and understanding that there is so much more that goes into it than just building a list to sell something so I just want to be very, very clear on that and if you understand that you see the power and the leverage.

And we haven’t even talked Chris and we may not even on this episode because I want to really get into how to communicate, what to deliver to them and how to sell to them well without being sleazy but we didn’t even mention that when you get this email list, and a lot of people say, “Well the email list what if they don’t open the email?” It’s like fine we can still take that email list now, upload it to Facebook and then we can make a lookalike audience or target a lookalike audience of people that are like these people. So that’s another thing that you get from that email list that you have that you wouldn’t normally have the ability to do so it’s just important that you guys understand that.

[00:12:18] Scott: It’s an asset, it’s a huge asset and again, this is why we are so passionate about it because we’ve seen what it does to a brand which is the one that we are using as an example right now but just in The Amazing Seller stuff. I have people that follow the podcast. I have people that follow on the email list that they get my Friday emails and I’m not selling necessarily on there but ultimately it can come back to a sale somewhere down the line but to me it doesn’t matter if you buy today, tomorrow or a year from now or two years from now or if you never buy because you are giving out that value and you are spreading out that goodwill as we call it. So with that all being said Chris let's dig in. there’s six things that I want to discuss here.

Number one is email list building that’s what we are going to talk about but that’s step number one. Step number one is building that email list and I know a lot of people email me and they say, “Scott where do I get started with that?” Well you and I Chris we did a workshop that goes over the exact steps that we have done. We actually gave you guys a step by step like what we’ve done we show you looking over our shoulder and that can be found at theamazingseller.com/buildlist so there is no sense in really going over how that all works as far as the offer, the traffic, all that stuff. That’s on the workshop, definitely go check that out.

Number two is and this is the next big one that a lot of people ask, “What do I write them and how frequently and that stuff?” Well step number two here is you should write three emails and this is critical because a lot of people would just get the email list and then they’ll send one email trying to sell and then they’ll email to say it didn’t work. Well it’s very critical that you understand you need to tell stories. Chris I want you to talk a little bit on this as far as what do we mean by storytelling? How can we make this more interesting than just saying, “Hey thanks for signing up, great, talk to you later.”?

[00:14:16] Chris: I think the biggest thing that people miss is the thing that makes email powerful and the same goes on social media is having a personality Scott and you and I have talked about having a front person in the brand and even if you don’t have somebody that’s willing to be the ‘face’ having that actual persona and you can do that very easily via email. Because the thing that is powerful on email is that you are creating a connection and the best way to create a connection in any setting is by storytelling or showcasing that personality and that’s really what we are talking about. There is going to be some idiosyncrasies, there is going to be some inside jokes with your audience or with people that resonate with you like TAS and the garlic press.

If you mention a garlic press on anything that you do people lose their minds laughing and it’s because that’s part of your personality now, it’s part of the persona, it’s part of the brand and so if we don’t use garlic press as an example we get angry emails from people who are like, “Why not garlic press? Why didn’t you use garlic press? Where is it?” And so that all happens through the storytelling. Now Scott just to make sure I’m on the right track here you said the first three emails so what you are talking about is the first three emails after the contest starts or the three emails that we send out around the sales?

[00:15:33] Scott: No. I would say you maybe even just give like, you don’t have to go through what you are going to write 100% but maybe just the gist of it. In those first three emails what are we putting in there so people know it’s us and then they are opening our emails?

[00:15:50] Chris: Okay so the first one if you are doing a contest or whatever you are using to capture those leads it’s just got to be a very simple thank you email and we are going to try to get then to share based on that so what we are going to say is, “Thank you for entering the contest, if you want to share with other people you are going to get three additional entries, go ahead and do that.” The next email that we are going to send out, and we don’t necessarily do this in a sequence like we don’t schedule this in advance necessarily but we do send a weekly email so  anybody that comes in is going to get that. We are going to send an email that is a piece of content and usually a reminder.

The example that we have that we were talking about before we jumped on here Scott we said ‘the new way to catch fish' plus ‘it's over soon'. So we are just letting people know that, “With the last few weeks of bass season upon us I wanted to take a minute to share a new trick that I’ve been using,” and then we show them the trick. We just send them a link to the YouTube video about the link and then we say, “I also wanted to remind you that the bass master 4,000 contest that we are running is about to end, it’s going to end on October 31st or whenever the end date is you haven’t already joined in make sure you do that and don’t forget to share the link.” So we are giving a little bit of value, we are also asking them for something that’s going to be there.

They are starting to see our personality in that type of email and we are still getting a little bit of value in return. The next thing that we send and the example that we used here is called ‘my big secret’, that’s the email subject and it’s basically just a content only email. So there is no call to action, there is nothing asking them to do anything other than look at the cool thing and the reason that we are doing that is we are really trying to show off that personality at that point.

And if they are willing to open and engage with this we know that they are going to be going for us long term so the subject that we use for something like this is ‘my big secret’ and so we say, “Hey, tonight’s a fun night, I have a bunch of my friends over we are making our lures to use this season. We’ve been doing this for a few years now and there’s nothing better than sitting around, getting ready for the season with a few friends trading tips and of course some fish stories. Before they come over tonight I wanted to take a few minutes to share some of my favorite lure making tips with you. I jumped on a Facebook Live and I show off how to make my super-secret lure. Click here to check them out.”

[00:18:00] Chris: Then we actually ask if they have a tip that they want to share with our audience and we do that for a couple of reasons. One people who send us an email back and you will get emails back on this kind of thing are going to be our super fans and we've sent basically three emails at this point. If people are engaging then those are going to be the super-hot people and we know that they are going to be good for us long-term and two it actually gives us ideas for additional content that we can create for free provided by our audience. So we are not sending anything super complicated here but in those three emails we are able to get them to enter the contest if they haven’t already or enter their wife, enter their friends, we are able to share and we are able to get them to engage with a piece of content without having to ask them to give us any money even at that point. Does that make sense?

[00:18:40] Scott: Yeah and that’s great it’s exactly what we want to do. We are letting them know that yes you’ve signed up so now they’ve opened that email and they also get another chance to share it which is going to be great because if they share it and if you go through our training in the build list training on that workshop you’ll see exactly what we mean as far exactly how we incentivize them for sharing the content or the contest. So it’s really, really critical that you understand that those three are very important.

Now the third part that I want to talk about is like let’s say that the contest ends and now people say, “Now I’ve got nothing to email those people.” I like to and I know we do this in the new brand is send out weekly contests so get yourself on like a little bit of weekly content schedule that you are always going to be emailing a list and another big question we get Chris a lot of times is ‘what if I don’t currently have my product? What do I email them and should I be even doing this even before I have my product?' Those are things that people ask and we can address those but what do we write at this point for weekly content? Maybe we can just talk about that really quickly and then we’ll talk more about the opens, the clicks and all that stuff.

[00:19:51] Chris: There is a few different ways you can approach this. There is the bare bones approach and then there is the way that we are doing it in the new brand because of some of the resources that we have but either way the email is going to look very similar. We are basically sending content only emails right, that third email the ‘my big secret’ email on a weekly basis. Now if you are creating your own content you are putting it on a website or you are putting it on YouTube wherever you are publishing that content you can easily link to that stuff whatever you created that week and that’s what we are doing in the new brand.

We are creating content on a weekly basis, actually it's two or three times a week because we have some resources in place to be able to create great content for our audience. But the thing that a lot of people run into Scott and… Owen just decided to attack my desk… Let me know if you can hear him in the background.

[00:20:41] Scott: I couldn’t but go Owen, go.

[00:20:47] Chris: I don’t know why he thought I was playing with him I’m standing here and I have been…

[00:20:50] Scott: Maybe your hands are going really crazy because you are explaining something.

[00:20:55] Chris: If you don’t have your own content you can share other people’s content and that’s what we started out doing. All you have to do and people all the time say, “I don’t have anything to share.” Go to YouTube, go to Google and share OPC, other people’s content. Find some really cool bass fishing videos, find some really cool ways to clean the garlic press and just link people over to that. You are not doing it for long term brand value, you are not doing it other than to keep that email list hot. We don’t want to let those people lapse because if we do we are going to get a lower open rate, we are going to get a lower click through rate if we go to send a sales email then.

And what we heard several times now since we did the initial build list training is, “Oh my product got delayed by a week so my content is going to be over two weeks before I actually get my product or something like that. What do I do in the meantime?” The answer is you just grab one of these contents on emails and send it. It doesn’t have to be the greatest thing on the planet, I write a lot of our emails and I think they are terrible but we get thirty forty percent open rates so I’m not going to complain about that and all you have to do is find something and send it. If it’s your own content that’s going to be even better if not just send somebody else’s stuff.

Just build a spreadsheet with twenty really cool fishing tips and guess what, you now have five and a half months’ worth of content and that you can send out at any point.

[00:22:15] Scott: Yeah and that’s the thing. A lot of people they get scattered as far as what they are going to do. To me it’s like once you are building the list now it’s really about okay, what are some ideas of what you can send in that list? You may even want to sign up for other people’s lists and get ideas of how they are sending it and it doesn’t even have to be in your market. It could just be maybe you are in the fishing market but they are in the cooking market but you are getting ideas of what they are sending and you are like, “Oh cool I can come up with six different tips on how to do XYZ” because that’s what they sent out or maybe you are seeing how the structure the email.

That’s how you can learn from this. We are going to give you some examples here but understand that you don’t have to write these long emails. I say shorter emails are better anyway. The other thing is do not write your email in a big block of giant text, break it up. Your English teacher will probably be cringing but you just want to break that up so it's scannable. That’s the other thing. Chris with that being said let's now jump into another important part of this. This is like our step four here is really like understanding and applying this but really selling the open of the email. We call this the hook. There is a couple of different things.

Number one, do not write a huge long subject line. Number one it gets truncated when you are looking at on mobile. So your first four words are probably the most important so let’s talk about the hook Chris really quickly and maybe give a few examples of the hook and the hook is really getting people to be either curious or asking them a question. Those are ways to get them to perk up and go, “This pertains to me, this is interesting.” Chris, do you want to share a couple? I got a couple I can share too, you want to share a couple?

[00:24:06] Chris: I’m just standing here laughing because you are calling this the hook which is the marketing label for it but all of the sample subject lines you have are fishing so I’m trying to keep my composure and not just giggle like a schoolgirl. But yeah there is a couple of good ones and some of the samples that you threw together here real quick I think are really good and what we are really trying to do is we are trying to pick curiosity or we are trying to make someone take a position. Anything that gets them out of their state and this is a place like having Joe on might be a really good place to talk about this but it’s an interrupt because when they are scrolling through their inbox they are looking for something that stands out.

Everything looks the same so anything that picks curiosity makes them angry because you’ve stated an opinion. Anything like that works really well so one of the examples that you gave here Scott that I think is really good is ‘This trick to help me catch a three pound bass yesterday.' What I would probably do is I would say ‘This weird trick' and it’s going to be something that people go, “Well what’s weird? What is this thing? I want to catch a three pound bass.” They’ll open it. “The DIY spinner bait, best DIY spinner bait Lowe's parts included.”

[00:25:19] Scott: Yeah I put in there it’s like your parts list is included I put Lowe's in there so depending on where you are from Lowes, Home Depot or you can just put parts list included so you can have that stuff in there because I think again DIY people always want to do it yourself and spinner bait I’m calling out. Again I know it's people that are interested in catching bass and  I’m going to really make myself sound stupid here but spinnerbait I believe you can catch some bass with so that’s what I would put in there. And again it's really short and punchy DIY spinner bait. If someone’s into that stuff they are going to be, “Cool I want to be able to make my own spinner bait and try it.”

And then they have parts list included so now you are asking yourself like can I make this myself or I’m going to actually give you the parts list so you can actually go out find it and then build it yourself. That one there to me is a good one. The other one that I like here that I came up with is even just using a number like ‘three of my best lures I can’t live without.’ Immediately you hear three of them you hear it’s my best and then you say the ones that I can’t live without. It’s like when someone is a professional like if you are a photographer and you say, “Here is three lenses I can’t live without.” You want to know what lenses they are because you are an upcoming photographer or you are even a pro photographer you are just saying, “Well I want to see if they are the same that I use,” so just some ways to get curiosity

[00:26:38] Chris: The other ones and I’m going to pull some from the examples that we have ‘The new way to catch fish'. ‘My big secret’ that was the one we shared a minute ago, ‘hook, line and floater’.

[00:26:53] Scott: With that one there you might get some flak for I’m not sure we call that a floater.

[00:26:56] Chris: Well it’s one of those things I didn’t want to say bobber. Oh you know what Scott, I called it out in the email copy. I didn’t even realize that I did that because we were joking about that subject line earlier.

[00:27:10] Scott: Why don’t you go ahead and read that email really quickly just scan it and you can read it give people a little bit of context?

[00:27:17] Chris: So this is an email that we actually used and guys we are not actually selling fishing stuff but it's rewritten almost identically from the example so the subject line is ‘hook, line and floater’. This was what we call a hybrid email. We use this as the second email in the three email sales sequence that you guys have heard us talk about that we use for product launches and the subject line is ‘hook, line and a floater’.

So it says, “Hey I just wanted to quickly jump in and let you know about a really cool trick that I found this weekend. Did you know that a hook, a line and a floater, not that kind of floater, is all you need to spot one of the biggest fish in any body of water? Check it out here. And we are linking to someone else’s YouTube video. I’m going to be honest I never realized that spotting a turtle’s head floating about the water could be such a good omen for that spot that I was fishing in. I tried it this weekend and got the biggest bass of my life, this stuff works.”

The photo is actually a turtle’s head in this case and that’s the big secret to catching a big bass. They actually hang out with turtles apparently according to that YouTube video. And then at the bottom we are just saying, “PS, if you wanted one of the cool realomatics, like the one that Bo is using in this video head over here and use promo code ‘Realin50' to get 50% off before Sunday. The reason we have sales call to action in this one is because we are using it as part of a sales sequence.

[00:28:32] Scott: Yeah and again we call that a hybrid so there is no sales being done in the front of that email. You are being humored a little bit like Chris sprinkled in a bit of humor but actually something that you might be interested in. It's neat to see how Bo actually figured this out and he’s sharing that. And it’s not you, you are not the expert you are just sharing something that you thought was pretty cool and then in the PS it was like, “Oh yeah by the way if you want to use that Realomatic that Bo is using go ahead click here we’ve got a special discount for you guys for the weekend.” Something like that.

I think it’s really important too that we highlight that Chris is that we also gave a deadline. A lot of people don’t do that. You should add a little bit of scarcity in there when you are trying to push sales through a promo so just little side tip for you. That might be a writer downer for you, really important but you see how we did that though? Nothing is salesy there we just threw that in the end, ‘oh by the way here it is.' So there is nothing salesy happening. It’s actually educational, it’s fun, it’s something you are interested in and you are not like looking at, “Oh this person is trying to sell me something. They are actually giving me value first.”

[00:29:40] Chris: And I think that’s important because you were talking about… You actually said “sell the open” and we are doing that with a hook. If you guys are struggling with coming up with subject lines, go somewhere like Yahoo and open any news article, scroll down to the bottom and look for the [inaudible] content. It’s going to be the ads at the bottom of those articles and it will say ‘sponsored content'. Those headlines are usually amazing because people are paying for that placement. The other place you could go is somewhere like Buzzfeed where they do a lot of ten best lists but they also do one weird trick and a lot of those articles their entire model is based on stuff going viral on Facebook and so if you look at their titles on blog posts it will give you some ideas to jump into that.

The second job that we have then Scott after we’ve gotten people to open is we need to do what you are calling sell the click and one of the ways that we do that is through the hybrid content. Regardless of whether we are trying to get them to visit out content or whether we are trying to get them to buy something from us we need actually to get them click once they've opened it. We have a second job to do now.

[00:30:42] Scott: Yeah and that second job like you said is clicking either the content or clicking a link to go over and purchase something. In this case we have two links in that email. We have one to a YouTube video and we have one to a product so now you may have a click that gives a link that goes over to the YouTube video and then in the PS you may have maybe something that you are doing inside your Facebook page that you want people to go over there and leave a comment on. That could be your call to action there that could be selling that click.

Like Chris said I call it selling the open and then selling the click. When you have an email you have to understand that you have an email list, you have people on that list, you are sending them an email. The very first thing you need to do is you need to sell the open meaning you need to get the attention of the open and get that done. That’s job number one after you have the email list. Job number two is obviously making them or having them do the next thing which could be clicking on that link to go watch that video or click on the link to go buy your product or click on the link to go put your comment in on the Facebook page.

These are different ways that we call selling the open and then selling the click. If you can’t get the email opened you don’t have a chance of getting the click so we often talk a lot about open rates. What is the standard open rate Chris in the industry of sending emails in various markets? What is the standard?

[00:32:07] Chris: I would say mid-teens is typically what…

[00:32:11] Scott: 17%.

[00:32:15] Chris: 17% to 20% is going to be on the higher end of average if that make sense. And we’ve had some emails that get… We have a sequence right now that sends an email every two days to the people who opt in to that sequence and those are getting 40%. If you are getting 15% or higher that’s good. Obviously the higher it is the better it is and you’ll start to get better and better and if I even just jump in here and look at some of the broadcast we’ve sent in the new brand and guys broadcast is just a fancy word for email to the entire list we can see some of the different subject lines that have performed really well and we can start to make informed decisions.

[00:32:55] Scott: And that’s what I was going to say because now we can say, “Wait a minute here, that email got 40% open. The one after that only got 22%. Why?”  Obviously it doesn’t resonate with people or whatever so if we can look at that and go, “How can we fix that? How can we add something new to it?” Maybe your email subject line is too long and what could get them interested is that tail end and it's being truncated because they are seeing it on the mobile so maybe you flip that around and you rework it. Those are ways to do it.

The other thing is to understand if you are getting 40% that’s great and all but can you tweak that to get 50%? That’s another way to take a thousand people and you are getting 500 to see it. How can we get 600 people to see it because if we get 600 people that’s 100 more people and we are getting a 3% click through rate. Well even if that 3% click through rate stays the same we are getting more people to see the actual link. And I know this is getting a little bit more advanced but it’s really simple if you think about it. We are building the email list, we are writing the first three emails that is going to be giving people a little bit of background of what we are and who we are and what we are doing and what’s next and that’s really setting people up after the contest.

And then from there that weekly content to stay engaged, to keep that list warm or as Chris said maybe hot and then from there we are looking at selling the open rate and then selling the click and then adding some hybrid content in there so this way we are not actually going out there and being sleazy just giving people sale after sale after sale after sale. The minute you do that you are going to see your open rate going from maybe fifty percent to maybe ten percent or five percent and that’s where you get a list of people that don’t want to be on your list or they are going to unsubscribe and if they don’t know how to unsubscribe they are going to be complaining. We don’t want that so we want to deliver value over the course of time.

So just really understand the content is there to give value but then also to bring people over to your social channels or maybe over to your sale or maybe over to a piece of content to really continue to be the reporter in a sense. You are the reporter, you are the expert maybe or maybe you are not the expert. Maybe you are the person that wants to be the expert and you are just out there doing research for them. That could be it and I call that the reporter style. You don’t have to be the expert. Basically come out say that say, “I’m not the expert either I’m just learning this thing but I really found this cool trick and I think you guys would really find it cool and I tried it and it worked great.”

That fine just be who you are or the person that is the front person or the person that you are using as your voice. That’s the one that you want to be able to tell the story of why you are putting this out there sprinkling some humor if you can and then curiosity and then deadlines. Those are big. So Chris to wrap this up here as far as this little section that I wanted to go over… So I'm kind of recapping going through here but I wanted to really the sixth thing here that I wanted to talk about is everything that we just talked about is around emails, opens, clicks, email list all that stuff but really I want people to understand that the same principles apply with social posts. Why don’t we talk about that really quickly? If you are putting together a Facebook post, how are you incorporating these same principles?

[00:36:25] Chris: I think that is important because a lot of people… And it works the opposite way too. If you find something that works on Facebook you can apply it to email and just like ion email everybody thinks that they need to do like what Best Buy does. They just need to send all sales emails and that’s absolutely the wrong way to do it. The same thing on Facebook or Twitter or whatever social media channel you are using we use sales emails as an afterthought, it’s not for primary purpose and the same thing on Facebook.

Occasionally we’ll send a direct sales email where it's like, “Hey we are launching this new product go get it,” but then the next email is a hybrid. Same thing on social, occasionally we’ll actually post a link directly to product but most of our content is going to be value so it’s either going to be other people’s content, it’s going to be a cool trick that we found, it’s going to be a gif about the industry, a meme, something like that about the industry that we are in. There is a gif going round on Facebook that Joe sent to me the other day of a guy holding a fish and it’s a giant like fifty pound fish and it flaps and it hits him in the face and he drops it back into the lake. Sharing that if you have a fishing page would do really well with that audience.

It’s not anything to do with the product and this is where something. I was literally having this conversation yesterday with somebody that we are helping in their new brand and he said,

“I don’t really understand it needs to be about the product right?” No the answer is it actually needs to be about the content.

It’s about the stuff that we are sharing the product comes in as an afterthought and so if we can link it back to a product great but what we are trying to do is really trying to give value. What we are selling is the connection and the value and so we are going to share a lot of things that don’t necessarily have a direct correlation back to our sales because we are trying to build those relationships.

So those things that show off your personality like the fish slapping the guy in the face and him dropping it back into the lake, if I find that funny I’m going to share that with the audience and see how they react.

[00:38:25] Chris: If they find it funny then I’m going to share more stuff like that and that’s the way that you do that inside of social. And you guys may have heard about a book and I’m just going to throw out of resource here but it’s a great way to think about it ‘Jab, Jab, Jab Right Hook' which Scott I know you’ve talked about in the past from Gary V, fantastic way to think about it., we are going to give, give, give we are going to give people what they want and then when we ask for something they are going to be willing to participate.

[00:38:47] Scott: Yeah and they are going to remember that you are adding value to them and you are not just pitching a product but you also want them to know that you do have stuff for sale. It’s not a bad thing to sell people stuff. Like I know myself like if I am receiving value from someone and they have products, it’s probably going to be an easier sale for me to go to them because they are delivering this value to me. I’ll give you a perfect example Chris. My pool company is finally finishing up and they came over and gave me pool school yesterday. They took me through the entire process yesterday.

[00:38:27] Chris: They give you floaties?

[00:38:29] Scott: Oh my God not but they should have but it’s very complicated chemicals and PH balances and alkalinity and all of these different things and I’m like, “Damn this is a lot to understand.” But they are giving me everything, they are giving me everything, they are helping me with all the stuff and guess what they offered me at the end? What would you think?

[00:39:48] Chris: Pool service

[00:39:49] Scott: Pool service right, “But it’s going to cost you $50, $60 a month for chemicals we can come in and do it for $200 and we’ll do everything. We’ll come once a week, we’ll even vacuum, we'll even blow off your deck, we’ll do everything.” So it’s almost like a no brainer. Now I can still say no, I still got a ton of value, they are cool with it but now they may send me something every month on tips to help with the pool. Well guess what, I may eventually just say, “You know what I think I’m going to have them just do the pool because I don’t want to deal with it. I’ve been dealing with it it’s kind of frustrating.”

So again just another example of how you could do it and they could intertwine some things to do in your pool for the summer, how to have a great party, how to be safe with kids like all of these  things now that I have a pool that would then pertain to what I am doing. They can also sprinkle in some funny stuff, what you can do for a kid’s party. So there is ways that you can do it and eventually like I said I may say, “Go ahead just do the pool service,” which by the way I did do the pool service by the way. I’m not going to monkey with that, at least for the first six months because the plaster is still curing so as the plaster is still curing it’s very important that your PH is right because if not you can ruin your plaster and then you are going to shorten the lifespan on that.

So they scared me in a sense so I bit on it. Oh my gosh look at that I just did that too we are talking about fishing and I just bit on that piece of bait that they threw out there for me.

[00:41:13] Chris: Chomped down on the bait

[00:41:15] Scott: But they didn’t overly sell me that’s the thing and it's crazy because the pool company the construction side, terrible. I wouldn’t recommend them. The service side, love them, really, really good .So I told them they should probably change the name. That’s what I told them I’m not even kidding…

[00:41:29] Chris: So you don’t want to be associated with them?

[00:41:31] Scott: No you don’t want to be associated because those guys, “The minute you were coming over here I knew you were going to try to sell me service I was not buying it. I’m talking to you now you are telling me everything I want to hear, you are telling me that if I have any issues contact you not them. I’m in.”

[00:41:44] Chris: I want to throw out two mistakes Scott that I see people making all the time and the struggle that even we have is striking a balance between the two. The first mistake that I see people making and we talked about this a little bit on the email side is it's nothing but sales. We’ll call that the youth cars salesman. It just doesn’t feel right because you are hammering over the head to get the deal it doesn’t matter we are going to sell, sell, sell its truck month, truck, truck, truck, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. You need to come buy it and yes you are going to get some sales through that in spite of it but it’s not necessarily because of it.

You are top of mind so the three percent of people who need a car this weekend are going to come down to Bobby’s used cars sale before Sunday to make sure they get the thing. The other side of that is, and I’m trying to think of an example but have you been to like a farmer’s market where people sell homemade candles or homemade soap?

[00:42:42] Scott: Yep.

[00:42:43] Chris: There is a lady here that sells homemade soap. And if she is a podcast listener let me know and we’ll help you with this but she is the exact opposite side of the spectrum. She is like, “Yeah we have soap. You should smell it.” There is no call of action, she is not asking me what I’m going to use it for, she is not giving any value she is like it's soap, here it is, it exists and we can’t do that either because we need to let people know how it’s going to help them.

We need to actually give them the opportunity to purchase. So we have to strike a balance between being the soap lady and the used car salesman and by doing something a little like… And ironically we call these hybrid emails before I started going through that, by using that kind of hybrid approach we are giving value, we are also letting them know how it might impact their lives so we are giving them a little bit of sales pitch and if they are interested then they can go get it. We are giving them an outlet to do it so we are asking for the sale in a non-aggressive used car salesman way but unlike the soap lady we are actually asking.

We have to strike that balance and using this type of email lets us do that tremendously well.

[00:43:51] Scott: Yeah and I think just to wrap things up again just understanding that these are real people and you also need to sell and it's not a bad thing to sell there is just better ways to sell than going out there and just hitting people over the head until they buy or the minute that they don’t buy you just discard them, you just say, “I’m done with you.” It’s kind of like my neighbor up the road tried to get my wife into an MLM type of thing. We won’t get into that topic but if you guys heard one of my Facebook Lives or I might even have mentioned on the podcast trying to come off as you are trying to help but then really not helping if you don’t buy kind of thing.

That’s not what we are doing and if you guys are listeners of the podcast for any length of time I think you guys already know that for me personally, this is episode 438 and those people that listen to the podcast who’ve gotten tons of value, who’ve launched businesses and have not purchased a thing and I’m, cool with that. You still paid me by sharing with me that you launched a product successfully and it's changed your life and I’ve got you up on my thank you wall. That energizes me, that fuels me so in a way you have and you might have told people about the podcast.

You might have told people about the private label classroom, you might have told people about a workshop that we’ve done so I think you guys see just by even watching what we are doing here on the podcast it’s about giving value, helping people genuinely helping people, not forgetting and discarding people if they don’t buy and if you do that I’m telling you right now that will work forever. It doesn’t matter the channel, the platform, email list, Facebook, whatever the new platform will be in ten years from now. It does not matter, people are people and people don’t want to be hammered over the head with they want to be treated good and they want to be delivered value.

[00:45:54] Chris: The thing that’s interesting there Scott and you started to talk on it the opposite side of not hitting people over the head is the candle lady who never asks and that’s the other side that I see people end up with a lot in the email is they send tons of content and that’s great but people don’t know that they actually have stuff for sale. If what I have as a fishing company is going to help somebody catch better bass, then I have an obligation to at least tell them about it. If our mission and to me everybody that’s building a brand should be genuinely interested in helping the people that are their potential customers and you are going to do that through content but you are also going to do that through your products.

And if they don’t know that it exists and it’s something that can help them you are actually doing them a disservice by not sharing it with them. That doesn’t mean you hammer them over the head but you need to at least make them aware of it from time to time and that’s why I like the hybrid emails that we are sending.

[00:46:49] Scott: Yeah I love it. Alright cool let's wrap this I’m going to recap the six steps that I believe is what everyone should be doing when they are building a brand and that is number one is email list building. I think no matter if you have a product right now that’s launched or if you are getting ready to launch or even if you are in just the beginning stages it’s something that you could be doing to even get information about your market.

You can get more insight about your market so number one is email list building I think that’s number one in really understanding and also in action steps to building that asset. Again I’m going to put a little shameless plugin here to our workshop theamazingseller.com/buildlist totally free and it shows you exactly what we’ve done and what we are currently doing right now.

Number two, writing your first three emails, talking about your story or talking just about our story that had happened. Weave in a story if you can and then letting people know about the contest what they just signed up for and what’s to come, what’s happening next. Number three is writing weekly content and it doesn’t have to be long, it just has to be value and it could be small little nuggets that you find and that you are the reporter and you don’t have to really worry about what to write. Just sit down like Chris said, get a spreadsheet and come up with some really great titles or subject lines that will grab attention and then from then there you can figure out what you are going to include in there.

And then number four is selling the open of the email. Understand that if we have an email list that’s great we have to be able to get people to want to open the email and that’s what we call selling the open rate or selling the open. That’s the hook as we call it and then number five is selling the click so once we get someone to open now next thing that we need to do is get people to actually click on something whether that’s a piece of content, whether that’s a sale or whether that’s maybe to share something or get their opinion on something and that’s something we call the hybrid content approach.

And then number six is all of this that we just talked about is basically the same in social posts so when you are writing social posts still use these same principles and the same story telling all of that stuff it will work the same inside of those social posts. So Chris with all that being said that was a mouthful and we stayed on for quite a while today because I know we can keep going in this stuff. Is there anything else you wanted to recap before we wrap up officially?

[00:49:21] Chris: I think just the biggest thing, the biggest takeaway of all of that and we huffed on it on probably half of the episode is give, give, give and then you have to actually ask at some point but what you are really trying to do is give value to that audience you are trying to make their lives better and I know it sounds like woo woo for lack of a better term. It sounds like, “Yeah this is aspirational,” but really that’s what you are trying to do. The reason you have those products it is going to help them do something and so if we can create that same atmosphere around the content that we are sharing it’s going to come back to us ten, fifty, a hundred fold.

[00:49:56] Scott: Yeah, 100% and like I said we are just going to keep driving this home. To me the email list is an asset, it’s an asset that you can use today, tomorrow and in the future and you can also take that email list, you can upload it to Facebook, you can get more knowledge about your audience and your market and who it is demographics like all of that stuff, build lookalike audiences and again that’s for another day but just understand it’s an asset that you own and you control and then from there you can just continue to really build out your brand.

Chris with that all being said let's wrap this baby up. I want to remind people of the show notes they can be found at theamazingseller.com/438 and then also we are going to be including some swipe files there, some of the emails that we shared and even a few more we’ll give you guys that you guys can go ahead and swipe it and just model it and just use it as inspiration if you want and we’ll include that in the show notes. And then again the build list workshop theamazingseller.com/buildlist definitely go check that out totally free resource it's myself and Chris going through this entire process and we actually give an example of how we did in the sneaker head market so you can go check that out there as well. So Chris are you ready to wrap this up officially?

[00:51:11] Chris: Let's wrap it up.

[00:51:12] Scott: Alright guys remember as always I’m here for you, I believe in you and I am rooting for you but you have to, you have to… Come on say it with me, say it loud, say it proud, Chris is going to do it with us today, right Chris?

[00:51:27] Chris: Yes sir.

[00:51:27] Scott: On the count of three, one, two, three, “Take Action!” Have an awesome amazing day guys and I’ll see you right back here on the next episode.


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