RYB 906: Never Shared Before Stories on Building and Selling Our E-commerce Brand (My Business Partner)

00:00:00 I would really try to manufacture in the USA if I could. I think, um, you know, the transportation of those things, the cost of them, and depending on what it was, you know, that one of my favorite items, like we just had to completely take a loss because most of them were crumbled by the time they got here.

00:00:24 Hey, Hey, Hey, what's up, everyone. Welcome to the rock, your brand podcast. I'm your host, Scott. Bowker a serial entrepreneur on a mission to help you. This show is designed to teach you, to inspire you, to motivate you, to take massive action and build a future-proof business. So whether you're just starting out or taking your existing business to the next level, this is your home. Now, if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's rock your brand. What's up guys. Welcome back to

00:00:58 Another episode of the Roku brand podcast. I am excited because

00:01:01 Today we have a brand new episode and this is

00:01:05 Nine Oh six. This is going to be really awesome because this is the first time that I've ever aired a conversation with my partner, or shall I say ex partner now, because we recently have sold our e-commerce brand. And today what we decided to do publicly here on the podcast is sit down, have a little bit of a conversation about what it's been like going through this journey together. And then also you'll hear really what she has learned through this process, how we ended up meeting, uh, which was really crazy. And it's why I'm living where I am right now. It's a crazy story, but you'll have to stay tuned for that one, but really just what we learned by going through this process. What she learned from going through this process, talked about partnerships, what makes it work? What can be a struggle, uh, you know, do we want to be in the physical product, you know, world, as far as selling products, you know, I even asked her that question.

00:02:05 I said, after, you know, now we've done this and you've seen all of the logistical nightmares at times. Are you still interested in doing this? And she had said, yeah, I would, if it was the right scenario. So again, I'm not going to give it all away here. It was a great conversation. It was a long time coming, but I think you're going to have a lot of takeaways here. And one of the things that you are going to hear us talk a lot about is two things, email list and a digital product. And the reason why is because those are two things that we definitely, we definitely built. And we leaned on throughout this entire process and more so the email list, because well, as we were building this brand from the very, very beginning, the first thing that we did was we started building that list.

00:02:52 So we could launch our products. That was the number one reason we were building that list. And then it turned into a traffic machine us that we were emailing that list three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, sometimes Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. And, uh, and really when we sold the business, the owner, the new owner was just impressed, so impressed with our numbers. And just to see the open rates, see the click through rates, see the traffic that we were generating just with the email list and then the digital product side of things, because that was something that we added after the physical products. And we were like, well, we should probably do more of those, but again, that's why we ended up selling it because of time and resources. But again, I'm not going to give that all away here, but the reason why I'm bringing that up, if you are interested in not building an email list and you haven't yet, then I would encourage you to go through our email list, building fast track workshop.

00:03:42 You can find that by heading over to brand creators.com forward slash list, again, that's brand creators.com forward slash list. And the second thing that I want to bring up here, depending on when you're listening to this, we are just right now finishing up another new fast track workshop, and it's called digital product creation, fast track workshop. So you might be noticing a common thread here, and that is fast track. And the reason why we're doing those is because, you know what? We can sit here and go through a three week, an eight week training, or you've seen them out there. These courses that take you weeks or months to implement, and I wanted to give you what you need as far as learning and then implementing it even faster. So again, if you're interested in joining this digital product creation workshop, which is brand new, it's our new fast track, a workshop you can head over to brand creators.com forward slash digital. Again, that's brand creators.com forward slash digital. And that'll take you over to that fast track workshop. All right, guys. So I'm going to stop talking now. So you can listen to this interview that I did with my partner on what we learned and what we, what we looked at as far as wins and losses all the way through building a business from scratch and then all the way to selling it. So sit back, relax and

00:05:03 Enjoy. All right, Debbie, welcome

00:05:06 To the rockier brand podcast. This is a long time coming. The one that's been behind the scenes of the secret brand, what's going on, Debbie? How are you doing,

00:05:13 Hey, Scott, I'm doing well. And I've been very excited for this day. You know, I'm, I've been busting at the seams, so yeah. Yeah.

00:05:23 It's kind of funny how it all kind of happened and how you and I met and Lisa, Matt, and Mike, and like everybody, we kind of, it all kind of aligned, but it actually had to happen in the order that had happened. You know what I mean? Like, but it is, it's something, I mean, you've, you've been through the, the whole, uh, you know, me writing the book that take action effect. And it's like that one moment that Lisa reached out to basically you, your blog and then asked just about the situation about living in South Carolina and, you know, and then that kind of led us there. So, yeah, so I'm excited.

00:05:58 Uh, you know, a lot of people, uh, are wondering and curious, like Scott, who is the secret partner and all of this stuff, and we're not going to disclose like everything because we still have to give some privacy to the brand. It's a fresh sale. Um, but I did want to talk openly honestly. And kind of now that the dust is somewhat settled, it's still kind of, it's not fully settled. There's still some, some cleanup that's happening from the transition, which is always the case. Um, but I wanted to kinda just give people a little glimpse of like what it's been like behind the scenes, everything that we've been working on, the good, the bad, the ugly, um, the struggles with, you know, with running a physical product brand, which you've never experienced before, up until this brand. And kind of like what you bring

00:06:42 Sorta did, because if we go back to when I met you and your family, uh, it was, you know, in 2009 I had started my own website, right. And just basically sharing my creativity. I was a stay at home mom and wanted to tap into those things. So I started that website in 2009. And basically, you know, from there, you know, what I want to encourage people is you never know who is reading. You never know who is, you know, going to find you from your website. And the interesting thing is back then, you know, SEO, wasn't even really a thing. We didn't, when I started a website, I didn't know what SEO was. I just wrote organically, whatever I was doing. And, um, you know, at first national magazine found me through my website and they actually came and shot our home and it was in a major magazine.

00:07:39 And then I believe in 2016 is when I received a message from your wife, Lisa. And she said, you know, Hey, Debbie, I've been reading your website and I see where you live. And we live in New York and we're thinking about checking out the area. And I'm like, okay, well, first of course, I had to go to her Facebook page. Cause I'm like, all right, this is weirdo, right. Is she a stalker or what? So yeah. Your family looked pretty normal. So I was like, okay. And, and you guys like flew in the following week and like, and I met you out for dinner. And from there we just, we built a friendship and I had no idea still what you did. Uh, I was impressed at your flexibility that you could just get on a plane and come and check things out. So I knew whatever you did it, you know, had to be, um, you know, very independent. So from there, um, I kind of helped you guys find your home and gave you a tour of the area. And before I knew it, your family was here.

00:08:46 Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Um, going back to that story, uh, I remember you actually, after we met you and Mike and I think the first PR did, we was our first dinner at like a pizza place. Now it was at a barbecue place. Yeah. I'm trying to think where that was. Was it the five?

00:09:05 It was in Fort mill. Yeah, it was, uh, five 21, I believe 21. That's it? I don't think I've ever been back.

00:09:13 He wasn't that great, but

00:09:17 Okay. I think our second one was at the pizza place, but, um, which I've only been there a few times, 2 cents because the service went downhill, but yeah,

00:09:27 We're kind of struggling with restaurants around here if anyone wants to get into that market, come to our location. Yeah.

00:09:35 So, so yeah, so you're, you're absolutely right. So once we, we met you guys, there was no, you know, there was no thought of like, okay, we're going to form a partnership on anything. It was more of, we're looking for a place to stay. You are a blogger and you know what I mean, blogging. And I want people to also understand, uh, another good friend of mine. Uh, Tony Anderson, who basically she'll, she'll say like back in those days, back in the day before Facebook, right? Your blog was Facebook in a sense, it was a place for you're like today I'm going to cook a casserole and I'm going to, you know, it was, that was it. And she had told me, like she had to go back and clean up stuff. And it was like, there was these like 200 word, little blurbs, what you did, and then you'd have the comments. And those were awful.

00:10:19 You just literally did it to share organically. And you know, you built an audience too. It was crazy. You know, there wasn't even email opt-ins. It was just people kind of finding you and, and wanting to, you know, share your journey or whatever. So, um, so once I found out what you did, um, I had always wanted my own little product line and I asked you, you know, how I can do it. And you basically just handed me over all your material, all your videos and said, here you go, Deb. And I learned it and I think you were like, Whoa, that girl,

00:10:57 Oh, you did massive. And it was like, it wasn't even that you were asking a lot of questions. It was just that you were starting to do. And I knew that just because, you know, you you're either talking to Lisa about it or just in conversation. And, um, and then I was kind of like, well, you know, if there's anything you need help with, like, let me know. Like, I think we were having, I think the time that you first started thinking about the product line that you ended up starting with, that assisted your blog. I think we were having pizza at your house in the, in the brick oven, I think outside. Right. And so we were having that. And then we started talking about like these certain items that would go well with what you currently have and you did that. And they did. Okay. It just, wasn't a huge amount of traffic that was looking for those things. Right.

00:11:43 And it was satisfying, you know, to my audience and, and, you know, I was doing, I was doing well, if it was something, you know, people are just looking for a little extra per month. It helped our family. It was perfect. And then, um, then later on how our brand became in place was Lisa was talking about something that she had and she loved. And, and I thought, I really, you know, I don't need one of those. And I started digging in more to it and I saw a need for something. And I messaged Lisa and she's like, hold on a second. And the next thing I know, we're on a three-way call. And you said, let's build a brand.

00:12:28 Yeah, well, it was because I seen that we're, you know, technically what we were doing just to give people context, because we can't share still can't share the brand. Right. Um, obviously, you know, the person that purchased it, it's their livelihood, you know, so we don't want, uh, to disrupt that, but just to give people context, it's just imagine you have a product. And then from that product, we just built accessories around the product. Then we started to branch out of that, because even though the product served a specific market, there was other things that you didn't want to build necessarily for the product, but you could build that still serve the market. And that's where we started to branch out and test things and, and stuff like that. So that's where I knew that there was a lot of search for the product, but there was a lot of search in that.

00:13:19 And there was a lot of content opportunities. And so what I started thinking was, well, Debbie's good at blogging. She understands how to do content, right? She is a go getter. You prove to me that you're a go getter. And I'm like, listen, it's not something that I want to be able to have to do and to have to maintain this thing and be in the trenches all the time, if you're willing to put in, you know, the work and, you know, I'll help with, you know, marketing or I'll help with even, you know, the first batch of products I'll fund those, like whatever. Um, and that's what we did. And we, you were excited about it. And I remember you had a prototype done in like a week. You know what I mean? I'm like, okay, she's legit. Like she's literally like prototyping know from these resources locally. And, and we had our first prototype,

00:14:03 Right? We did, we did. And then, you know, we, we sent it off to China. And from there that was, um, one of our first big product line. I think we had done another little one in between that was kind of a dud, but it was at least getting us out there. And, um, you know, at the time I was very much the face of the brand and that, that did help a lot, I would say for sure, it grew quickly. I think it surprised us as well, because there was already people in that market. And I thought, well, I'm kind of a newbie stepping in, but it didn't matter. You know, I, I built my own audience and my own people. And, um, one thing I want to note too, to everyone. Well, as, um, if you recall, I joined a lot of groups and I was kind of lurking and looking. So I was watching what people wanted and what they were looking for. And that helped tremendously because we were able to create more product line and content for the website that we have.

00:15:12 Yeah. Well, and to, to your point, uh, you know, you being in those groups also, well, first it showed you that some groups didn't want you in there multiple times getting kicked out, but you also had some that wanted you in there. And actually you did some Facebook lives for their communities and, and you built these relationships. And I think that's the one thing that people don't realize you can't really scale that, right? That, that that's hard to automate or to scale. That's where you, you put in the work. And I mean, Debbie, I mean, you put in the work, I mean, let's face it. Like you put in the work sometimes too much work. And you know, I got on you at times. Like Debbie, you can't be just because you're doing more doesn't mean that it's going to result in more. It just means that you are busy. We need to focus on the things that are really driving the needle. And right now you're kind of just throwing a bunch of stuff out there. Let's see what sticks. And there are some groups that they, yes, let's, let's tend to those some, you know, we could, you know, we, we don't care about

00:16:10 My time. Exactly. Yeah.

00:16:12 But there was, again, going back to your point, you never know who's watching, you never know. We had a company reach out to us major company that wanted to fund one of our, one of our ads, one of our blog posts, they wanted to fund it, push, I think it was like five grand, wasn't it?

00:16:26 Yes, they did. They paid $5,000 to push, uh, one of our pieces of content from the website

00:16:33 Basically boost the post it's basically,

00:16:37 But get a ton of traffic and a lot of new subscribers. And it was fantastic.

00:16:44 Yeah, no, it was great. And I haven't looked at that video in a very long time, but I think it was over a million views. It had thousands of comments, thousands of likes, uh, you know, some of it wasn't that great cause the, the targeting that they chose wasn't the best, but Hey, I mean, free, you know, they paid the fine. Uh, so that, that was really cool. I do want to go back to those. So when we first started, if you recall, we had like a very simple bundle is what we were offering. It was very, very, very inexpensive to put together. We knew it was probably going to get knocked off sooner than later, but we wanted something that we could get out there and really, I guess, you know, take the temperature of the market, like, see if they'd even respond. But before we even had the website, excuse me, before we even had the website built, we started building that list with a giveaway.

00:17:32 Yes we did. And we also, um, I wrote an e-book.

00:17:37 Exactly. Yes, yes. And that was, and so you wrote that, I'm trying to remember back on that. So that was that wasn't our lead magnet initially. Um, our first thing was a giveaway. I think our second thing was a lead magnet. That was probably that product. Um, and then we started, yeah. And then we started building that, it lost a little bit of, uh, of what we did there, but yeah, it's a little fuzzy, but, but that list that we built, um, the reason why I'm sharing that is because, and I did, I actually got like, in some of my slides that I've shared at like presentations that I've done, I think we launched four or five products almost back to back.

00:18:14 We did. And not intentionally, that's just how it worked out. So,

00:18:19 Yeah. Cause you had, you had, did the outreach, did the manufacturing, did the samples and it just happened that they all came back like good. And they all came back at the timeline is that they were going to be able to produce them in the lab at the same time. And so what we ended up doing is we, we did little mini launches using that list and it did propel our sales. Yes. Times are different though. Right? It's not the same as it was back in 2016, 2017 when these products were going. So it did get harder. Um, but because we had

00:18:49 Back to the Facebook groups, what I did with some of those products was I was sharing what I did and people organically were asking, where did you get that? What is that? I want one. And if you recall, in one day we had sold of them from a group share of people asking me. That was crazy. Yeah.

00:19:14 Yeah. That was, that was pretty exciting too, to look at that and see this huge spike in sales. And you're like, that's like organic traffic from a growth. Um, you know, which is awesome, but in the same breath, it's like we had talked and you know, my, my theory on this, but like, those sales are great, but they're, one-off sales, Amazon owns them. We don't own them. I want those people. Right. So that's why the build of the email list. Um, and if we were to do that again, it probably look a little bit different because what I would probably have suggested is let's put a landing page to get the coupon code so we can collect those emails. Right,

00:19:47 Right. We wind up later on doing that sort of thing. Um, yes. Yeah.

00:19:52 I think because you didn't know how well it was going to go. So you're like, Oh, the create a pretty link. I'll share it, whatever. And then I'm like, Holy crap, like we should put this in there. And then it was like kind of too late and was like, all right, next time, you know, but you just don't know. I didn't, I didn't know. It would take off like that. You know? And actually before, before we sold, there was also another one that happened randomly. And I was, I looked at the app and I'm like 110 sales. That's crazy. Like what happened? And then you were like, yeah, I don't know. Someone shared a post somewhere and I'm like, that's insane. Right? No. So the power of groups and sharing and all of that stuff is good. But you also want to think, uh, you know, you want to think smart about it as far as like, okay, if you're going to get those sales, number one, if you have a product that's repeatable or that's replenishable then okay, fine.

00:20:35 Right. But secondly, if you don't have that, I would try to think about intercepting that with an email address of some kind, or at least pixeling the page with a Facebook pixel or something to build that custom audience. Um, so, okay. So let's like that we kind of painted the picture, but it wasn't all smooth sailing. There was days that, uh, I could probably go back through my text and you were about ready to jump right in. You're like, I don't know if I can do this anymore or whatever. And I'm like, all right, let Debbie walk away from the edge.

00:21:06 You talked me off the ledge many times, Scott. Yes. Yes.

00:21:12 And, and, and I, I get it though. You know what I mean? Like I understand you're like, you are more like in it like day to day, like seeing this and hearing this or getting, uh, someone that's complaining or someone that's saying bad things or whatever. So it really affected you more. And that's why part of it was me having, getting you removed from that

00:21:32 As I started taking things personal when, when you are the face behind the brain and, and, you know, on social media, people behind those keyboards, they will say anything to you. They have no, no grace, no care. And yeah. You know, I did start getting used to it sadly, which, you know, you don't want to tell him, Oh, get used to being called names and you can't do this. Right. And whatever, and get your hair out of your face. And I know stupid, right. Critiquing, they were constantly critiquing. Um, but with that said, there were very, very nice people as well that we met along the way that became very loyal to us in our brand. And, um, they were, they were great. So there's good and bad in everything. Yeah.

00:22:24 And so again, kind of to keep painting the picture. So basically though, also in the background, I don't know when we got serious about blog posting, I just think it was like, okay, we're building an email list. We need some things to send them. And so then you were just randomly just doing what you've always done, create a post weren't thinking about SEO. Weren't really thinking about any of that stuff. Right. And we started getting traffic, it started to build. And I'm like, I think the minute that I realized that we were starting to get traffic, that I actually looked at the analytics, this was like, Oh, we're getting like 25,000 people there a month. That's crazy. Like, that's a lot of people. And then I'm like, maybe we should do a little more of this or whatever. And then that's where we started doing that.

00:23:04 I mean, we had a couple of months over a couple of hundred thousand, um, you know, and then Pinterest on top of that and that you were, uh, that you were working on, um, and the Facebook. So our, our, our traffic was very diversified. I think, you know, we had Pinterest, we had Facebook and we had organic, um, very little paid ads. Right. And that's where I think the new owner can really Excel this because we just didn't have either the patients. We didn't, I didn't have the resources at the time or didn't have the bandwidth to do it. But I think there's a huge opportunity for the new

00:23:38 Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

00:23:41 Uh, I, I guess also the one thing I'll bring up is, and this is where I'll, I'll say I was, uh, I don't want to say I wasn't naive, but I was like, not willing to see it. And you had mentioned it to me at one point was the ads like running ads on the site. And you're like, you know, I've been using ad thrive for years and it's really great. You know, you get a few thousand dollars just from your traffic. And I'm like, Debbie, we don't want people to go away from our site. We want people on our site because that's how I was always kind of taught. Right? Like you want people to stay on your site, but the truth is when you have that much traffic, uh, not everyone's going to buy and people can still buy, but there's a majority of people that aren't going to buy.

00:24:21 Why not capitalize on those people? And I'm like, you know, and I still didn't think it. And then when I was convinced is there, I went to a mastermind out in San Diego and there was two girls there that were both bloggers. Um, and, uh, one of them was a physical product brand as well, which she added it because of the podcast, Alex, uh, travel fashion girl. And then there was Cassidy from succulents and sunshine and they were, they were like, so you're not running any, any, uh, any media vine or ad thrive. And I'm like, nah, we're not doing any of that stuff. She's like, well, you really, you might want to just test it and just see what happens. Like my partner said that we should maybe, but I just don't know. And then I remember telling you, I go, let's just run it and see what happens. And you're like, all right. And then when you did, you're probably like, see, I told you we should have ran this earlier.

00:25:06 No, I never did that too, because I understood your point of view too. You were very, you know, you wanted our audience to focus on the products, but what started happening as the website was building, and we were providing that value to go with, like, it was a win-win situation either way, if they didn't buy anything, we were still getting those traffic impressions and a new subscriber. And then at the end of the month that add it up and you're like, Oh, this is pretty sweet. Yeah,

00:25:36 Yeah, yeah, no, it was kind of eyeopening. I was like, wait a minute here. Like, we didn't have to sell a single product. Cause I came from ad sense days. Right. Like ad sense is like, you got to have someone click on the link in order for you or, or the ad that they click on it in order to get paid. And I'm like, I don't want to have to worry about that. Right. But getting someone to just show up and you get paid, that's a whole nother ball game. And I'm like, okay, eyes wide open here. So I learned a valuable lesson there. I'm like, and that's what I'm at actually doing. Now I'm doing it in the Academy. I'm like, I'm building traffic slides just to monetize. So this way here I can have a passive income stream that I don't have to do anything. Right. Um, so that really helped us out in some months to that, you know, might've been out of inventory, right. Or maybe we had an issue with one of the listings or whatever we have that steady flow of money coming in was nice. You know,

00:26:27 Going back to what you were saying, you know, the original website that I had, I kind of left to the wayside and it ran on its own. I was still good. I still get paid every month for that website. And I don't really do anything over there much. So, you know, it's like, once you build that house, it's standing, you know, it's there. So, you know, you have the content on there and people are searching for it. They'll, there's a good chance they're going to land on you. So yeah,

00:27:01 Yeah, no, that's, uh, that, that was a big wake up call for me. Um, and it also switched my gears to like, well, if I just focus on building content and get people there, yes. I can sell them affiliate products. Yes. I can sell them my own products, but I can start right off by just monetizing through an ad network. Now not all ad networks are, are equal. We've we've learned that egoic media, vine and ad drive are the three and they kind of go in that order, like media vines in the middle. But although I've heard some people say they have better luck with media vine than actors.

00:27:28 Yeah. It's give or take, like I said, my loyalty has always been to add thrive. I was with them from the very start. Um, they've grown immensely as a matter of fact, Scott, at the time our website didn't even make the minimum of what they required, but because I had the other blog, they were like, Oh yeah, we'll we'll grandfather you in. So, so we were fortunate there, but I think now it might be a minimum of a hundred thousand pages a month.

00:27:58 Yeah. I think we were at 75 when you reached out to them, we're pretty close. Yeah. We were close, but uh, yeah. And then you got them to accept us. Um, but it's funny because, uh, I think, uh, Cassidy, she runs on media vine. Um, and she said that I think she tried AdThrive and it wasn't as good for her market. I think it's per market. Right. I think it's no, they might have better people in that market. Now another guy that just, uh, he, uh, joined our Academy about three months ago, he just bought a site and uh, it's getting about 65,000 page views and he's making about 1500 bucks a month. And just the traffic he's getting about 27 to 28 RPM, which is crazy.

00:28:36 Yeah. I mean, we

00:28:37 Were up in that Mark with our, which was fantastic. Um, but you know, my daughter has, you know, my daughter has her blog. She might be getting maybe 12 or $13 in RPM in me, vine. And then I've got two running on Zoellick one's at like 12 or 14 and then the other one's at like five to nine, you know? So it just, it does depend on the market.

00:29:00 Well, and I think they go up over time too, because, um, each quarter I believe that the ed networks, they kind of reconfigure indifferent, um, ad networks come and bid to be on certain sites. So it does change.

00:29:16 Yeah. No, and, well, that's the other thing too, though, like you can have, and I was telling this to my daughter, Alexis. I said, listen, you can, there's two things. You gotta be aware of. Number one, you can have that same traffic this month be a thousand dollars. The next month be 2000 with the same traffic because your RPM went up. Right. So anyone that's listening, RPM is basically your per thousand. So every thousand visitors you get, that's what they're willing to pay. Right. Basically per thousand. Now it doesn't mean you have to have a thousand. If you have 800, it's going to be a percentage of whatever that,

00:29:46 And quarter four is always the highest. No.

00:29:49 Okay. Yes. Yep. So you're always leading in, so, but I said to her, I go, so you do also, that's not really good because then you can't depend on it being always the high end. Right. It's going to be fluctuating. That's why you want diversification. Right. Um, but, uh, but it is nice, a nice, consistent thing, um, to have kind of running in the background, it kind of supplies some cashflow.

00:30:14 Well, and especially for us too, because oftentimes we would use that to create another product line. So we use the money from the website to launch another product. So it was good.

00:30:27 And you know, the one thing that a lot of people, I hear a lot of people saying this and you know, I, we, we want to reinvest in our business. Right. But the one thing that you and I have done pretty much, I would say after the first eight months I would say is we started to kind of follow the profit first mindset where we were starting to pay ourselves. Uh, and you know, that was nice. And I mean, some months weren't as much as others, but some months were really good. And so when people look at a sale of a business on what we cashed out on, including inventory and stuff, it's fun number, but then you really got to look and see what did that business pay you over the course of the time? And, uh, then it becomes like, okay, we actually did build something actually bigger than I had thought, because I think I had told you, I said, my goal was to exit this brand at seven figures.

00:31:17 We fell short of that. Right. If you really look at the numbers overall, we're pretty close. Right. So it's, you know, it's one of those things you're like, we did pretty good in three and a half almost. You know what I mean? So, um, so let's, let's talk about, okay. Some of those struggles, what, so you're looking back at all this, now you're taking a deep breath and you're like, okay, it's part of my past. Now it's over with, I can take a deep breath and, and whatever. Um, what's some things that stand out that you're like, man, I, I learned from that. I, I either want to do more of that or I don't want to do more of that. What kind of comes to mind?

00:31:58 Um, I think the biggest thing for me is, you know, I necessarily wouldn't put myself out there a hundred percent as me. If you know, there's a lot of creative ways to do videos, to share whatever you're doing on Facebook that you don't ever have to show your face. You could still make a connection with an audience by showing up every day. It is consistency. Like you do. You are like the King of mr. Consistent. I envy that. And you, and you can still do those things as long as they're expecting something on your page every day or something on your website once or twice a week, or that email three days a week. Um, I just personally, wouldn't go full throttle in showing myself again, because I think that just kind of took a toll on me. Like I said, personally,

00:32:55 Let me ask you this though. Would it have been different if it was like a strong passion of yours? Cause this again, I'm going to time out here. This was not a passion of yours. This was like, like fake it til you make it kind of thing. Right? Like let's, I mean, I'm not saying we're faking it, but this was not something you were passionate about and you still delivered exceptional content consistently. Um, but now you want nothing to do with it, right?

00:33:17 No. And my personal friends and my life, they were shocked. They were like, gosh, we watch you. And you just, you look like you love it. And you're so good at it. And I said, Oh yeah. But as soon as I shut off that camera, it was like, Ooh, well, in my head it was exhausted. Um, but yes, you're right. If you are. Because when I did my first brand learning through you, I was passionate about that and I did enjoy doing it and I was good at it. And I understood our brand. Wasn't even good at it, but I did learn, I will say I learned to get good at it. So that I'm very thankful for because, um, you know, you never know until you try something. Right.

00:34:06 Well, and that's the thing, right? You gotta, you gotta try it in order to see, but you were, you were looking at also like, this is, you seen the opportunity right. At afar. And you're like, okay. And then I'm confirming it and I'm validating it with you. And you're like, let's go for it. Then we go and start doing it. And it was fun in the beginning. And then all of a sudden it becomes a job, right. That's where the fun disappears. And you're like, I just want to, I just want to get out of this thing. Right. And so, and it's normal, but I guess what I'm trying to see here is for you, if you're passionate about something and this is something that you want to do, maybe you're never going to sell it. Maybe you, you are going to sell it. And if you were going to sell it, I think the one thing that you learned I've learned is just get contributors that come in as guests that are going to contribute, because then it's not just you, but if you're passionate about it, are you going to hop on camera?

00:34:59 Are you going to be like, Hey, it's Debbie. Right?

00:35:03 I wouldn't do it again. I would, because that is another thing that I learned, you know, I was very camera shy at first, even though I had done it before. You're right. No, no, I didn't. They were like, Oh, you're so comfortable and natural. And we love watching you. Um, so it did build my confidence as far as that goes, that even if you are camera shy, really just look at it as you're talking to friends and you know, you'll get that feedback right away. Like I said, that you'll get some uglies, but for the most part, people are nice and they're happy. See you like they were so happy just to, especially in the beginning of this year, 2020, when I first came on, they were like, Oh my gosh, this is wonderful. Uh, they just like to see people or see something yeah.

00:35:54 Up to them too. It's kind of like a form of not, um, entertainment, but it's, it's a sense of a break. It's a sense of like, uh, something they can look forward to. It's kind of like a TV show. If you look forward to a TV show every week or whatever, it's like, Oh, and it's, it's a sense of like safety or, you know, comfort. Um, which I think we all need. But I guess the point I was trying to make was like, I I'm I'm with you. Right. There's two brands that we're building as case studies. I'm not the face of those brands. Right. I'm not going to be the face. Uh, what I find someone that could be more of the advocate or the contributor. Yes. I think that would help the brand. Um, but now for brand creators, I'm going to be the face.

00:36:35 Right. Because I don't see myself ever, ever trying to sell this brand. Right. This is me. This is who I am. I want to be this, and I'm going to do this until the day I die. Probably because I just said it the other day on a Facebook live. I like people say like Scott would even do when you retire. I go, I am retired. I'm doing right now. Like, I don't feel like I'm doing anything that requires me to be like, ah, I got to jump on again and do that. I enjoy it. So, you know, if you're at that place, then it's you, do you, do you look at it? Like I'm not going to be on camera. You know what I mean? Like,

00:37:08 No, I would totally do it, Scott. I would definitely go back on camera again. If it was something I really enjoy doing and teaching and I'm showing people and having them tune in, I would do it in a minute. So, yeah.

00:37:22 Um, but, okay. So let's talk a little bit about the physical product side of things. Okay. So when you first started it it's exciting because you're seeing like, okay, there's a box of 50 and we just sold 50 and that's going out the door and I really didn't have to touch it other than get it into Amazon. Right. That's pretty incredible. Like when you have that experience and then you're like, Oh, 110 sold today. I didn't have to sell them. You just look at your app. You're like, that's cool. Right, right, right. But then it starts to get a little old when you can't get your inventory or, you know, you have a problem with the inventory and you order this new product and they're cracked or they're broken. Like we had happened to us. Right. It was an amazing product. We couldn't get it here without it being on damaged. Right. Um, so let's kinda walk through that. So w what are your thoughts right now about you launching more physical products right now today? I mean, we're like, not even a month out.

00:38:20 Um, I would do it again, that part, however, I would really try to manufacture in the USA if I could, I think, um, you know, the transportation of those things, the cost them, and depending on what it was, you know, that one of my favorite items, like we just had to completely take a loss because most of them were crumbled by the time they got here. Um, so I would try to find someplace in the USA or something, you know, super light. Uh, th there's a lot of different things, but yeah, I would, I would definitely do a product line cause I love creating and I love to see what is needed. So when you see it and you can put your own twist on it, like everything we did, we didn't take someone else's brand and say, well, we're going to make it a little different, slightly different. Most of our things were unique to us and the market.

00:39:23 Yeah. Yeah. So, so it was funny. I was telling you, I had a hot seat call with one of our Academy members. Who's, you know, he's doing great. He's probably going to do, I don't know, 1.5 this year, it's doing great, but he's adding digital products. Like he doesn't have that part of the, of the equation. And he was like, Hey, congratulations on the sale. And he's like, uh, so, uh, you know, what's your, what's your next move? Like what, what kind of products are you going to sell? You know, what kind of physical products you can sell? Like, listen, I can, I gotta be honest with you, man. And I'm open and honest. I mean, here we are on the podcast, I'm taking a break from physical products right now. Right. And, and one of the main reasons is, is just because the amount of the amount of, uh, well, startup costs, number one, but number two, just the everyday logistical thing, right? Like you said, if you get it in the, in the States, it's going to be easier, but you still got to get it in Amazon. You still gotta deal with Amazon unless you're going to try to sell it exclusively on your own website, which is fine. Right. But to me, because it's what I am, I think I'm also good at again, you go to what you're good at, right. It's digital products. Right. Like I don't care what market you're in. Right. Um, so that's where head's at.

00:40:37 And here's to, to your point as well, is what happened to us is because our products were so good and unique, guess what happens? Six months later, they got copied. Yup. Yup. And then, you know, they were coming in copying, um, slashing the price in half. Um, you know what, we still always held our own, which I'm very proud of. We didn't change our prices. We didn't lower our prices. We thought, you know what? Ours are better. We also taught people how to use the products where right. Those people that were copying, they didn't even know what it was. And they made

00:41:17 Yeah, no, they, they really didn't. Uh, but it was still frustrating. Right. I mean, there was plenty of messages where you're like, we got another hijack or we got another copycat and stuff like that. All right. Well, whatever.

00:41:29 Well, you're dealing with always put your head down and you were just like, put your head down, focus on yourself. And that's what I did. I was like, Scott's right. We have our own lists. We have our own people. We're going to be fine. And we weren't.

00:41:46 Um, we, we were, uh, the other thing I want to highlight too, that I think you did a really good job on which I think anyone can do it. It's just a matter of putting in the time and effort is you created a fantastic relationship with our sourcing person. Yes. Right. And we actually took her from her original place where she was performing. Right. Or where she was a, you know, basically being an agent in a sense. And she ended up, I don't know if she got fired or if she left or whatever, it was the circumstances, you know, more about it than I do. And then we basically said, can we just have you work for us and do like all of our stuff? And she was like, yeah. And she was a young girl and she even invited us to her wedding and which we never attended.

00:42:31 Yeah. Her and I actually became very good friends. I mean, every day for three years, her and I spoke and not necessarily all about business either. It would be, you know, how was your day? She sent out a baby she's since got married. Like, you know, I've gotten to be her friend. And I watched life changes with her and it was very special and we will continue to be friends. And, um, you know, our new owner is fortunate because she said she will still continue to work for him. And she wants to help him, you know, grow the brand even bigger and better. And I said, he's very lucky with that. So I'm happy for him.

00:43:14 Yeah, no, she was great. I mean, she, I mean, tell, tell the short story where, uh, she actually took a train like ours,

00:43:23 Two hours away. She, she took a train, um, to the factory to check on them and it was all men. Okay. And she's a young girl, I think, 25 years old. So it was a little intimidating for her. She had never done that before. And when she got there, she said, you know, they were very welcoming. They made her dinner. Um, she slept, I don't know where she slept maybe in the factory that night, but she actually took that trip like two or three times for us to go check on the product and make sure it was everything we wanted. And sadly, that is one of the products that, you know, a lot of it came crumbled. So yeah, but that wasn't really her fault.

00:44:06 No, it wasn't. It was a lot of, it was a lot of work on her part, a lot of money on our part and you know, it is what it is. Right. But when you live and learn, but she was dedicated, which I think came because of the relationship that you had built. So going back to relationships, you and I had a relationship, that's why we're talking today. Right. Right. You know, you had a good relationship with that supplier. Uh, you know, we have good relationships, other people that perform tasks in the business. Right. And I just think that that's so important for people to understand that those relationships are everything

00:44:39 Right. And the relationships that I did build in the groups, like you said, what the communities, they would want me to come in there and, um, you know, share things with their group. And some of those groups had 500, 600,000 people in there. So that was very, very beneficial to us. And I'm still friends with them as well. That was one thing they asked, does this mean we're not friends anymore? I said, of course you're still my friend, just because I don't do that anymore. So,

00:45:09 So, uh, on that note, is there anything you like, anything that you would say to someone that's thinking about like approaching a group, like how would you do it? How did you do it? That was a way that didn't look like you were just like, Hey, let me put my stuff in there so I can promote my stuff. Like, how do you get that conversation started? I think that's right.

00:45:28 Well, you know, being a part of a group, isn't always about promoting yourself either. It is like I said, you want to listen. You want to watch, you can learn so much, like, all right, I'll use your bass fishing, join a bass fishing group. People will say, gosh, I wish I would make this lore that, you know, with an S shape and it would do multiple things or whatever. So you're learning, you're not necessarily even going in there to promote anything. You're, you're listening and watching people and what they are looking for and what they want. And, um, once you can do all that, then you can kind of sprinkle in and organically. Like if you were to create that product line that you think was useful, you can go in there and show people. You'll look at this bass fish I caught today using this lore. Where did you get that lore?

00:46:26 That's the first question. Yeah. That's going to be the first question that people are going to ask. Right. And I think you really did a good job of that too. Even with our own products, as you'd start to show like, Hey, we're thinking about these three styles, which one is your favorite? Right. And then they would vote and you'd be like, all right, that's the one we're going to do. So you get them involved in that process. It makes them more excited about what's to come.

00:46:48 Yeah. And not only if you don't want to join a group, create your own group. And you know, it starts popping up in Facebook. You may also like join this group. And then, then you have control over that group and you can post anything. You want another, we had two groups, but something unique we never did was even with our list. We weren't very salesy to our people at all. No. I mean, somebody else would have definitely been a little more aggressive and tried to sell more. We gave way more than we ever took from them. Uh, so,

00:47:30 Uh, Facebook, I've got a love hate with those guys. Uh, love them. Cause they, they allow us to target market and all of that stuff. Right. But man, Oh man, they really throttled back your reach. And it's really frustrating as hell. Like I had a group, I closed it down with 58,000 members and organically, I never paid to get people in that group. Right. And you know, it, every day I had, you know, two people that were moderating it, that would be basically, you know, kicking people out or banning people or report and you know, other people would be reporting and then you have to take them out. It was just a bunch of spam, even like inappropriate stuff. Like, you know, it could be illegal, you know, like, and it's like, this just isn't worth it. It's not my people. So I ended up closing it down.

00:48:17 But even that group of 58,000, if I was to post something, I'm lucky if I got a hundred people to see it. Right. Right. And that's the frustrating part of Facebook, or you might put something up and all of a sudden you get 5,000 people to see it. It's just, depending on the time, the day, the, the, whatever you chose to put in it, like there's all these variables. But the one thing that I've learned is just consistency again. Right. It just comes down to it and just stay consistent. Anything you want to share with that? Because I know you've posted in the group for the past four years or three years, and then, uh, the page, um, anything else,

00:48:50 It was just every day, just don't miss a day. And if you have to hire someone to, to post on your business, Facebook page, hiring them, they're, they're cheap and they're, they're have them hit like, you know, keeping the page active, um, commenting back to people, answering them, hitting like, and continue to post two, three times a day. That's all you can do. Sometimes you'll hit where you'll get, you know, a hundred chairs and the next day you might get crickets, but you just have to be consistent and keep doing it.

00:49:25 Yeah. That's the key word there consistent. And that's tough for people because they're like, well, I just posted yesterday. I only got one. Like, and it's like, well start somewhere. Yeah. But I think the one thing that you said, and I think that's, you gotta do that. I think that definitely helps is when you start getting a comment or two, that you, you reply back to those people and just go, Hey, thanks. Or, Hey, thanks so much. You have any other questions or, Hey, I have any other things that you'd like to add or whatever. And then that gets that conversation. And that does signal to Facebook that there's a conversation happening and maybe we'll show it to other people to get in on that.

00:49:56 Right. Right. I've also known as people have been doing hashtags were on Facebook. I don't know if that's new. Um, I don't know if it doesn't

00:50:06 Hashtags in the comments or hashtag in the description or

00:50:09 The description and the description I've been seeing more of it. So I don't know

00:50:15 John from the test, I guess. Yeah. Let's, let's uh, let's talk a little bit about the other platform that I have a love hate with that is Pinterest. Yes. Let's talk about those guys over there. You've been on there for a long time. I've been on there a

00:50:28 Long time since the very beginning, the start. Um, I think at this point I have about 171,000 followers. It's growing crazy over there for me every day I get new followers, uh, you know, that little reach thing that they show. I think I'm over almost 7 million reach now. Um, I don't use any of the tailwinds or automated services. Never really did. Um, I don't, I want control over what I pin and I do know that Pinterest likes organic. They want you to be on their platform as much as Facebook wanting to, to stay on theirs. So if you do it organically, I think, you know, Pinterest changes every week.

00:51:20 Right? I know that's the, that's the frustrating part.

00:51:23 And one thing I've noticed they've been doing with some of my pins are making a lot of them shoppable. So like, let's say I have, um, I don't know, a kitchen posted everything in my kitchen is shoppable, but it's to benefit Pinterest. But as you've always said, when you're playing on their playground and their rules, you have to go with it. What I did yesterday was change up some of my pins. And I actually put like, um, the main picture in the background and I put an overlay smack dab in the middle of it. And I said, whatever, you know, the topic was and hoping that avoids those shoppable pins cause they can't tag that stuff.

00:52:10 Ah, I see. I see. So they're actually scanning that pin in a sense. Yes. And they're going like, Oh, that's a, that's a globe. I'm going to go ahead and link it to a globe that's for sale.

00:52:18 Exactly. And they're making money off your pin. Right. They have every right to do it. It is their platform.

00:52:25 But now again, we're thinking through this now. So like, if that was the case, let's say that that was a popular globe. Right. And your yours was about home decor or whatever. And so that's going to get that in front of more people because they feel they can sell it that technically could give you more traffic to wherever you want them to go. Correct.

00:52:44 It could. I do believe if, if that you can, if you have your own product, you can tag your own globe.

00:52:54 Okay. Yes. Okay.

00:52:55 So it is very beneficial for someone that already has their brand. Also Pinterest ads can do very well. You target your audience, just like you would on Facebook, you create the ad and you can get a lot of activity. I've seen it where it's helped, you know, a lot of Amazon sellers get more traffic to their brand. Um, didn't tap into it too much. I dabbled a little here and there and I did see, you know, some days that I increased a budget or whatever, we might get more sales that day from that ad on Pinterest.

00:53:33 Yeah. Yeah. So it's again, it's one of those things on, you just said it, right? It's like you can't depend on any of those things. The one thing that you can depend on as far as a traffic channel is your email list. Like I've said that forever, right? Like every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday emails going out. I know that there's going to be a certain percentage that are going to open. I know there's a certain percentage that's going to click, which I've never seen as high of a click-through rate that we had gotten with this brand. I've never seen it in my life. Uh, I mean we were sometimes approaching five or 6% click through rate, which is unheard of. It's generally like if you can get a percent to 3%, you're doing fantastic open rate. You know, if you can get 18 to 20% after your list is like not new anymore because you know, the first, the first week or month, even your opens are gonna be higher. We got a sequence that was maybe 30, 40 days long. And we looked at it, you and I looked at it. I showed you the very end of that, which is like 30, 40 days later, we were still getting a 28, 30% open rate and 4% click-through rate, which is insane.

00:54:32 Yeah. Well, they became excited over it. You know, they wanted to see what was next because it became a habit. They knew that we were sending something out three days a week. We didn't bother them every day. If they didn't want to be on the list, you always said, tell them what they can unsubscribe. That's fine. There'll be two more behind them. So subscribing. So yeah. And there was, and there was yeah.

00:54:57 Yeah. But yeah. So, uh, no, this has been good. Like I said, I wanted to get you on and kind of, we could kind of talk through it since we've we've, uh, you know, celebrated and raised the glass and said, okay, it's, uh, it's done. Right.

00:55:10 We haven't physically raised the grant class though. I know we still need to do that.

00:55:15 We, we will that's happening. That's going to happen. Uh, yeah, we can do that. Uh, we can do that arms length away, right.

00:55:23 Yeah. But I just want to thank you again. I mean, you, first of all, you put a lot of trust into me as well that, you know, I don't know how many people, because I mean, we were kind of virtual strangers, but you saw potential in me and you taught me a lot and I'm sure I'm going to go on and do something else. Pretty awesome.

00:55:45 Oh yeah. I know you are. That's not even a question. It's, it's a matter of, uh, probably me saying like, Debbie, what are you doing? And then you're telling me, and I'm like, all right, slow down. Like we not want to, we don't want to go too fast here. Right.

00:55:58 You got one,

00:56:00 You got one gear and that's high. Right. Like, and you and I are a lot alike in that way. Like, we're impatient. Like I literally just got off a call with Chris and I'm like, can we just dial up the ads a little bit more? Because I don't want to wait for traffic. I want more now I want to know my results. Right. Like I don't want to wait. And he's like, yeah,

00:56:19 That's why we did so well together. Like I, you got me and I, you, and you know, sometimes we had to talk each other off, but for the most part, we, we did great. And, um,

00:56:29 We did. And as far as like, again, and you knew that like, I mean, partnerships are tough, right? They can be. And uh, you know, you and I, I mean, I won't say that we didn't have our little ruffles here and there, but nothing major. We were able to kiss and make up because I always, this is what I always put first and foremost in our partnership is always this. If this is going to hurt my friendship, it's not worth me to, even, to even basically say, Debbie, I don't agree. Or Debbie, this, not that I won't voice my opinion, but if it's something that's not that important, but yet your not happy. I'm never, I would never override that because to, for me to have you and Mike, as friends for Lisa and I to be Frank, there's nothing that should come in the way of that. No business, no money, no nothing. Um, so I always put that there first, um, that was always,

00:57:22 And to your credit, I mean, you were dealing with a, you know, 54 year old menopausal woman, so,

00:57:34 Oh, that's beautiful. Uh, that's funny. Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's funny because you know, I, and I say this to my wife all the time, women are, uh, you know, men and women are different. We have, there is to it we're wired differently. We don't need as many emojis in a text in order to say how much we feel like, I, I mean, Lisa said that to me the other day, she, she messaged me about something. I was out by the pool. I was getting ready to jump in. This was actually probably a month ago. I'm ready to jump in. And I seen her text real quick and I just said, okay. And I put my phone down, I go in and she goes, no emoji, like really like, and I'm like, I'm not upset. It's like, I'm just saying, okay. I mean, I have the time to put a heart or whatever. Right. I'm like, I just, I'm getting in the pool.

00:58:18 I know we're emotional, but yes. And you know, it's funny because your wife, Lisa actually got me into doing more emojis because I want to make sure that I'm coming across smile.

00:58:30 Yes I'm okay. Yeah. I'm good. I'm really, I got three now. I'm really happy. Right. Oh man. It's, it's so funny. But, uh, but anyway, uh, it's been an awesome ride and, and I mean, Hey, who knows where you know where you'll, you'll go next. It doesn't matter. You've, you've made a, I mean, you've done something amazing that a lot of people haven't been able to do and that is build a business from scratch and exit it. Like, that's a pretty awesome thing to be able to do that. And, uh, again, I just want to say publicly here, just you did awesome. And, uh, it was, it was an amazing ride and, uh, and who knows what the future holds, you know, if there could be something else down the line that, that we help each other out on. So definitely those, but we'll take action as we will. All right, Deb. Thanks so much. I'll see you soon. I'm sure. All right, Scott. See you soon.

00:59:22 All right. So there you go. I wasn't kidding. Right? What a crazy journey it's been. And hopefully you had some takeaways there from listening in on that conversation. But the one thing I want to highlight here is I asked my partner, were you passionate about this niche? Because we hear a lot about that. Like, if you can have a niche that you go into that you're passionate about, that would be like the best of both worlds, right? Because now we can work on something every day that we're also passionate about. And what she was really passionate about was starting something from scratch and building it up into a business. And in the very beginning, it's exciting to do that. But then as you do it, it starts to get a little bit old. And that's where you might want to do something like this, where you learn the process, you build something and then you exit out of the brand like we did.

01:00:15 All right. So again, if you are just starting and you're thinking to yourself, I really don't have a passion right now that I want to go into, do not let that hold you back. Please do not let that hold you back because you can build something and you can always sell it later. There's people out there right now, scooping these things up. We had over. And in the very beginning, I think we had over like eight or nine offers within like 36 hours. And, uh, you heard the story, how the deal actually fell through because of COVID. And then, you know, we had to resell it or put it back on the market and it ended up again going fairly quickly. So just understand that. Do not let that hold you back. Now, if you do have a hobby or a passion that you can see, and that you've validated, that has potential there, then yes, by all means do that.

01:01:06 Uh, but just do not let that stop you. I see so many people they're like, I just don't know what market I want to go into. I just don't know the niche. You know what? Spend a little bit of time doing a little bit of research, a little bit of validation, and then just pull the trigger and do it. And you'll learn so much. I can tell you this, my partner, Debbie, she has learned so much from this experience, not to mention she put a pretty good paycheck in her, in her, a bank account, uh, by going through this process over the past three years. So there's that there as well to, uh, to kind of look forward to if you do it right. All right. So again, I want to remind you guys the email list, building stuff, the digital product creation stuff. If you are interested in learning on that, because email list is big and so is digital products that I would encourage you to check out those workshops.

01:01:52 You can head on over to a brand creators.com forward slash list. That'll take you over to the email list, building fast track workshop, or now our brand new digital product creation. Fast track workshop can be found@brandcreators.com forward slash digital. All right, guys. So that's it. That's going to wrap it up as always remember, I'm here for you. I believe in you and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to come up, say it with me, say it loud, say it. Proud. Take action. Have an awesome, amazing day. And I'll see you right back here. Next episode. Now let's rock your brand.

01:02:30 Sure.