RYB 864: How Serious Health Problems Turned Into A Fulltime Business with Prerna and Mayank

00:01 So, so that's when we started to focus on what sort of offers do we create? What services do we, uh, uh, do we have, um, what sort of scalable, uh, program options do we have so that the revenue keeps growing, but the time, uh, keeps coming down like 10 to 20%.

00:21 Hey, Hey, Hey, what's up, everyone. Welcome to the rock, your brand podcast. I'm your host, Scott. Bowker a serial entrepreneur on a mission to help you. This show is designed to teach you, to inspire you, to motivate you, to take massive action and build a future proof business. So whether you're just starting out or taking your existing business to the next level, this is your home. Now, if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's rock your brand. What's up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the rock, your brand podcast. Today. This is episode eight 64, and I am fired up because we've got another featured guest, actually two featured guests, a husband and wife team Prerna and Mayank, and they are a great couple, but really have an amazing story. And someone that actually looked at a situation that could have been really, really bad, and they turned it into something positive.

01:24 Okay. They literally found out that my uncle was ill and had to leave his job temporarily. And that actually was a huge moment for them. And you're going to hear me dig into how that felt, but how do you go from having a full time career in the corporate world and then getting this terrible news, how does that direct you to where you're supposed to be? And you guys know, I wrote a book called the take action effect. I talk about these take action moments in our life. And that one, right there was a major moment. And you just never know. I mean, this thing that we're going through right now, COVID, it's big. It's massive. It's crazy it's history, but this here will be a moment in time that probably changes people's lives, not just with the virus, but I believe it's waking people up.

02:23 It's giving people that restart or that time to say, you know what, now I kind of have to do this thing. I'm going to do it. And this way here, you're not just, well, I think I might want to do this one day. You're almost forced to do it. And this could be that huge take action moment for you. So I am going to stop talking now, so you can listen to this amazing interview. You're going to learn a ton through here just by listening to their story. You're going to be inspired. You're going to be motivated, but you're also going to want to listen in because well, I dig into a little bit their business as far as how they market. And also is it always been easy or has it always been easy and a, well, we all kind of know. It's usually not. And you're going to hear those ups and downs and really how they've arrived to where they are today. All right. So sit back, relax and enjoy this interview. Hey, Purina and Maya, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and doing this for me all the way from, is it India? Are you guys in India, right?

03:27 No, that's right.

03:29 And it's evening where you are and it's it's am where I am. And, uh, this is just incredible that we actually get to do this, so pretty awesome. Uh, so Hey, welcome to the podcast. Super excited to have you, uh, so do me a favor before we actually dive into everything. Give us a little bit of a background on you guys, and then I'm going to dig into your story. Cause I think you guys have a really, really cool story, uh, living the, uh, the entrepreneurial dream as we would, you know, say, but isn't always been easy, but give people a little bit of a background on who you are and where you kind of, kind of where your roots are from.

04:05 Sure. Thanks. So, um, so my I'm going and I have always worked in our business together and, uh, but it wasn't always a business in this shape and form. So this started as a mom blog back in the day when Blogspot blogs, where I'm totally dating myself here. But anyways, so, um, yeah, so I remember our daughter was nine months old and I, you know, I'd stepped away from the corporate workforce and I was at home with her and, um, I just needed something like as a creative outlet. So I started a blog and, um, that lawn just kind of became, was a very part time thing, but it was more a passion project, but it started leading to like a few, you know, writing gigs and people reaching out on Twitter and saying, Hey, like the post you wrote, which one, right for our blog connected me with, you know, some really great bloggers with I'm still friends with today.

05:01 And, um, so what happened then along the way was, um, my son got really ill. He had chronic inflammation and, um, he was on bed rest for almost a year. And that meant that he had to step away from his full time job as well. So, um, we started working on his health and, you know, making changes to his diet and all of, all of those things. And when he started getting better to, he, we have to take a decision, like, what do you go back to corporate workforce? Because he was working with American express at that point of time. And, or, and he was more excited about this than I was honestly, because he's always had the entrepreneurial drive and dream and, you know, um, but he was like, let's get this blogging thing a shot and see if we can do this from our businesses.

05:50 Let's see if we can do this for a year and see how that goes. And then we can decide. So I was like, okay. So he reached out to a few, you know, a few clients that we, uh, I'd been writing for part time and then the, no that'd be, be doing this full time. We requested a former, um, former boss off, um, of mine who had an ad agency. And he, um, he did our initial website for us pro bono. Um, simply because at that point, uh, Scott, honestly, we had like B, we did not have funds to invest in the business. We'd spent all our savings on, on basically living and medical expenses. So because he'd been out of the workforce for a year and so we needed to take some, you know, so that was like a very, um, just to start up a business, taught us some really important lessons in, in a relationships and B uh, staying humble, but not letting that stop you from going after big dreams. So

06:52 Let me just stop you there for a second, if you don't mind. Like, so I just want to dig in there a little bit, because I mean, that was a critical point for you guys to be like, okay, blog spot. I mean, I used Blogspot too. I'm dating myself too. I mean, who hasn't right back in the day. And it's funny whenever I do, like, I'll do like keyword research still to this day for some of my other brands and I still find blogs on Blogspot and I'm like, Oh, cool. There's an opportunity for me because I pretty much know that I could probably do better than them, but anyway, just cause it's been there for like years. But, um, so you're doing this, like you're just blogging as a, as a, and I'll probably get some flack on this, but mommy blogger, right. You're like blogging, you know, like just about anything and everything and just kind of your little diary online in a sense about what it's like, you know, mom and all that stuff. And so, but then how did people start to see that you were a good writer and was it even copywriting at that time? Or was it just a good writer?

07:48 Oh, good writer. It was just, you know, like I was very active on Twitter again, like back in the day now Facebook and Instagram are more my thing and you know, where we are more, uh, you know, I'm active on when it comes to social, but Twitter was like the place I would spend most of my time. And again, like, like I said, even different brothers. So for instance, you know, um, I don't know if you know, Mandy Eamon, she was, you know, she used to run a block collective way back in the day and she's since sold it. And she, you know, I started writing for her. Um, then dish and writer, I started doing, you know, like when we started up business, um, I started doing some social media, uh, for her and I wrote guest posts, posts for her. And then, you know, she became our client and we working social media management for, so at that time it was not, you know, people would just read your blog. It was, they would might say, Hey, I really like the way you write would, you know, so juror's mind would want to write, um, would you write for me? And then, you know, it wouldn't be a lot of money. Like I said, it was really part time. But then when we got ready to do business, these were the people we reached out and we were like, you know, this is what we'll be doing a team.

08:57 And we just want to make a goal for it and see if this would work. And so it was a lot of pitching, um, know, just basically getting business to come in. But I would say both lucky and blessed to have people believe in us and people send us business. Um, like you said, we're in India. Most of these people, we'd never met social media management at that point of time. How long ago was that? Would you say? So that was 2011 when we started. And, um, first year was not a lot of money in the first year. We did a $20,000 in the polio, but it sort of gave us confidence that this there's something here. Um, we had great reviews. Um, obviously at that time we were in no position to spend on our business. So our pricing was extremely low, but the social media and the blogging business really grew from there.

10:03 And in about three years time, we'd reached about a hundred K um, with that business. Um, however, at that time we were working a lot of hours. So, uh, so even though the business was growing, we were doing like, what about 50, 60 hours a week? So, so we, we realized that if we have to really scale this, uh, probably we just have to go the agency route. Um, w which for a couple of reasons, didn't really excite us. So that's going to be taught, um, that the grading is something that we enjoy. So why not give it to something like copywriting? So, so that's how the pivot came about.

10:44 Gotcha. Okay. So started as writing content for other people, really. And then, then you started seeing like, this is hard to scale unless we go with agency model, which the agency model is a tough animal, right. Like it's a tough thing in itself. Um, and then from there you're like, okay, and this is where that next pivot comes. How long would you say it was before you made that initial pivot where you doing it for like three years and then you're like, we gotta, we gotta do something here.

11:11 Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we we've been done with social media and content for about four years. And then, um, it, it took us a few months to sort of decide whether this is the right thing to do. Uh, but the prenup was extremely keen to do copywriting learn. So that's when she took the first copywriting course. And at that time we sort of decided that I would not really get into writing. I would manage the business, trying to grow the business, keep it streamlined, um, and pray now we'll get into writing. So, so that's how, uh, the copywriting, uh, services really started. And after the first couple of years, then we sort of grew

11:54 Into serving two separate audiences. So one was an entrepreneur or an online educator that would want copy written for them. And then they bought the service base owners and copywriters who would want to basically come into our programs and learn and grow that way. So those are the two sort of audiences that we serve now. Okay. Okay. And so, yeah, I, I liked that, you know, like how, where it starts and then where it kinda ends up and kind of like the, the, you know, the, the pivots along the way. Cause they are there and you kind of recognize that you probably in the beginning were thinking like, Oh wow. If we can just do this full time, everything will be perfect. And then you're like, you get to a level and you're like 50, 60 hours a week. I'm working more now than I did when I was at my real job and whatever.

12:39 And then you're like, there's gotta be an easier way, but then you've built up connections. You've learned throughout that entire thing. What were some struggles like as you're kind of coming up through the ranks and you're kind of like, what were, was it the growth of the business? Was it initially finding the customers? Like what was, what was some struggles along the way that had you maybe questioning, you know, is this even worth it or is this the right direction? This doesn't feel like we should be going here. I can't imagine us doing this for 10 years or whatever.

13:10 Yeah. Um, I would say it was growth or finding clients honestly, like, and I almost feel bad saying this, but it was quite easy for us to get my say we love marketing. We love growing our business. We love talking to clients and it's yeah, it just comes naturally. So I wouldn't say, and also even when we weren't on beyond getting on calls and things like that, it was, you know, through emails and it was just so exciting. Um, but what I would say was a struggle, which is what also led to our, our limiting was that we've always wanted. And, and we reached that stage of understanding that we want a business that we are we're in this for the longterm, for us. This is not like a side hustle, which is good for, you know, if it's good for you, but you know, for us, this is like, this is life and we cannot run a business independent of our life.

14:09 It needs to integrate with it in a way that makes it sustainable. And that kind of led to us creating like our, our belief around sustainable scale, because we want, the, our struggle was essentially, you know, understanding like how do you find that balance? But we, you know, continuing to do the work that excites us and that we really enjoyed it really, really excited to get up in the morning and get to work, but at the same time having a life. So, you know, when we re like, we really need to kind of, kind of, you know, take a hard look at that. And we decided that we like that hashtag hustle life is great for those who, you know, it's great. If it works for you, we just realized it did because for us, we, we both deal with chronic health issues and just going hard for, you know, and just keep scratching and doing those late nights since then continuing to stay up, you know, wake up early and all of those things sacrificing everything else. Yeah. That was, that would have totally ruined our health. And that was a price we just couldn't afford to pay.

15:17 Well, yeah. I think that's a common problem that, um, that I think a lot entrepreneurs fall into. I mean, heck I've fallen into it numerous times and you have to then recognize like, why am I really doing this? Right. And then it's like, it's not going to do me any good if it kills me. Right. Like, so it's like, what good is it? Uh, and sometimes we can do too much, but we think that's what we want until we actually start to achieve it. Um, so what is the balance, like what was that thing for you guys? Cause I think that's the, that's the big secret that people would want to know, because if someone's listening right now, they might not be facing that yet. But once they get to a certain level of success, they will face probably a similar, a similar roadblock or decision or fork in the road. That's like, okay. I thought it was going to be something I got here and now the money thing, isn't the issue. And now it's the time thing. That's the issue, right? It's like, as you grow, you, you get different problems or different things that you have to deal with and you have to ask those questions. So what is the, how did you balance that? Like how do you balance it that you're not working 50, 60 hours a week and you're still able to grow your business?

16:26 Yep.

16:27 With sustainable scale, we sort of realized like, like you said, it's, it's a combination of time, money, how you handle that and also, uh, happiness in your business in your life. So we sort of looked at how things went and the initial five or six years, and we set that up, be happy to grow at 20 to 30% every year in terms of revenue. But when we do that, we want to cut back 10, 20% in terms of the time that we put in the business. So, so that was sort of the overarching goal. And, and obviously with less time that goes into the business, then we have a better work life balance. So we spend enough time with our daughter. Um, we've been for the last five years taking four vacations in a year, which includes, um, traveling to a new international destination every year. So we absolutely, that's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So we be sort of wanting to integrate our life and business goals. So, uh, so when life was concerned, we wanted more time as a family, uh, more time to travel, uh, enjoy, uh, food, spend time together and on the business of things. So we

17:50 Said, we have happy to grow. We don't really want to double our revenue and then tell ourselves, but working 50, 60 hours. So if we have a sustainable growth battle of 20, 30% and cut down on time. So, so that's when we started to focus on what sort of offers do we create? What services do we do we have, um, what sort of scalable program options do we have so that the revenue keeps growing, but the time keeps coming down like 10 to 20%. So, so that's how we've been like that sort of planning, sustainable growth. Yeah. I liked that. So, and I was gonna, I was looking for that last piece that you just kind of threw in there and maybe we could even dig into that a little bit, but like by you creating products that are somewhat evergreen, right. To where they could be sold on their own.

18:40 Now the thing that I see with that though, and this is something that I even struggle with to this day that we're always trying to balance is like marketing, doesn't go away. You got to continue to market the products, right? So it's like one, one week Facebook ads are working great. And then all of a sudden they're not, and it's like, it's a constant battle because to keep that flowing, I mean, everyone wants to evergreen. Everyone's like, well, I want evergreen. I want an evergreen funnel. I want everything to just be, you plug it in, you get it to work. It's you put a dollar in, you get a dollar 30 back and life is great. You get new blood into the business and yada yada, yada, but it's constantly, I mean, at least I've seen it myself and anyone that I'm in a mastermind with. It's like, I'm always hearing that. How do you deal with that? Because do you have, are you doing that you're yourself? Are you focusing on the marketing aspect or do you have someone that's focusing only on that aspect? Just curious on that.

19:33 So for us like mindset, you know, we bought like two sections to the business, really. So we put copywriting services, which we've been able to successfully package and sell that that really helped move the needle for our business in terms of cutting back on time and also being able to give our clients what they really needed. Uh, for instance, one of our packages is like the launch copy package, which gives them literally everything they need for their launch. And, you know, you have like a wait list going for that. Then, you know, we have like our artismal VIP day package. Uh, so, so that was, that made it really easy to scale the copywriting services side of the business. Um, and also, you know, like as, um, as we grew, we had people like, you know, asking us, okay, so how do I do the same?

20:16 How do I package my services? So we realized we needed to launch the program. So we've got, uh, we've got one large group program right now, and you've got a smaller, more intimate mastermind style, uh, strategic consulting group as well. Um, both of them right now are, uh, you know, they have like time sensitive launches. However they build move to evergreen mode. Um, next year onwards, the reason they're not an evergreen mode, the Cirrus because, you know, March was when the funnel went live and then it happened. And then we had to pile, you know, really look at what was going on. Having said that evergreen funnels is what I specialize in as a launch strategist and copywriter. So that is something that we've worked a lot on and seeing, you know, like what works, what doesn't work and, um, and how to make the marketing simpler for us personally, the marketing is all us.

21:14 We do have a small team that the Explorer off the, you know, um, the other, um, administrative tasks and makes it easier for us to focus on what we do, uh, what we do best, like, you know, he takes her operations and active growth, the creative side of things. Um, and what we found makes like for a really great Mexican cause we made our programs may not be evergreen, but our services, but we, you know, everything else is evergreen, right? Like we're constantly selling something. And, and what we found is like the best way to do that is just kind of show up and deliver on what you've promised your people you're going to deliver. And whether that's like, you know, just showing up and just doing a podcast a week, that's it like, that's, that's your minimum. You promise that you just going to do that.

22:04 You don't have to think about every, but everything else. And we've done that a lot, you know, like it's so easy to get pulled into like Melinda from directions, that's getting hot. I need to get jumped on ticked up and now it's time stories are cool. I did tell me, I need a, you know, so you need to constantly reflect on, what's really moving the needle for your business. And what's that one thing that you need to do, that's going to take you to wherever you want to get to in a way without, you know, that's not going to kill you. And then just focus on that. So maybe it's just, you know, showing up on Facebook and posting every once in the day, maybe it's just posting, sending an email out y'all is like, just do that one thing that you promised your audience that they'll get when they, you know, joined your community, when they sign up to your list, when they sign up for your programs, just, just focus on one thing that makes it a lot easier to then continuing to find the energy to market. When you really do need to push the pedal on marketing your programs and services.

23:06 Yeah. I liked that, that you've broken it down and we've actually done that just from last year. We've reduced a whole bunch of stuff. Just because again, going back into you get into this mindset that you want to do everything cause everything's exciting to you. And as entrepreneurs, we get bored. Right. And it's like, Oh, but we've been doing that same thing for like, you know, two years. And it's like, it's been working, but it's time for a change. And it's like, why did we change that again? Uh, you know, so, uh, so sometimes we have to ask ourselves we're just bored. Um, but, uh, I agree. I think that, you know, having a simple mindset of just keeping basic and not over complicating things, but also I like it that you said you kind of went to where you're only doing a certain amount of launches.

23:54 Um, and that's actually what we've done this past year. Like we have a membership, um, where it's called brand creators Academy, where we help people build brands and uh, all different areas. And we basically launched it after our live event last year because we wanted to simplify it. I didn't want a hundred programs, you know, Lee, you know, like all of these different things and then you gotta manage all the funnels and then all of this stuff, I'm like, I just want one point of direction. Now we do have other standalone little trainings workshops, if you want to call them that. And we are looking to get those into evergreen, but, um, but they all feed to the same place. And I think that's the important part. So, uh, let me ask you this. So when you're, when you're not, because you said you're pretty much not evergreen now, so you are into like, you still have to launch. And the evergreen thing is like the Holy grail, right? It's like that thing. Um, do you structure out your entire year for when everything is going to happen right now? Or is it still kind of loose where you're like, all right, we'll do it three, eight, three months out and then we'll plan. Just curious.

24:53 Yeah. Normally we prefer to do it like in blocks of 90 days, like you said, something interesting comes up, a great idea comes and you want to them create that offer right away and then launch that. So it'd be like that degree of flexibility that if he, if he finds something really exciting us time to then create that, get that out. So 90 days is what really works well for us. That's how we structure it

25:22 To keep us excited. And then we're not moving so ahead into the future, especially because as, as creatives as well, you know, it feels like if you, it used to be great to do is to do this, you know, a while ago. And I used to build a lot of this when I was blogging and that's easy because you're batch blogging and you're kind of talking about it. So you can like, you're right. Months in advance. So we've done all of that and we've had like, but then we realized like right now, what was really best for us is to just do 90 day sprints and see, you know, just go with that and then review reflect, and then move ahead. Yep.

25:57 I like that. It's I like the sprint too. Right. It's like, you get focused on that one target and you just

26:02 Go, yeah.

26:04 Y'all all hands on deck for that. I really liked that. What, what would you say is working really well right now? Traffic-wise like, what is working for you guys to get eyeballs on your products or on your services? Cause I think this goes hand in hand with anybody right now. It doesn't matter what you're selling. I don't care if it's a physical product, a digital product. Like what, what right now would you say is working best for you for traffic wise?

26:31 One of the best things that's were, you know, like that's shown really great results for us has been a podcast and, you know, um, masterclasses for, uh, different programs that we've, um, those have worked really, really well to get very targeted traffic into our, um, into our programs and into, and for our services as well. Um, so these have been doing really well. The second thing that's been working really well has surprisingly been, you know, um, has been Facebook and Instagram. Um, those have had a lot of impact and traffic as well. And then of course, regular Google SCL, like SEO posts. Yeah.

27:12 Yeah. W what do you think? Uh, so on the Facebook and the Instagram, I'm assuming, is that paid ads? No, no, no. So it's organic. Yes. Yes. Oh, wow. So, okay. Let's talk about that. Cause everyone's saying organic is, is gone, right? Like you can't get organic reach anymore. So good. We got, we got a couple of ninjas here. That's going to reveal some, some gold for us. Uh, I mean, yeah. I mean, we're, we're running Facebook ads. I do Facebook on other things too. I mean, we have a group and a page and all of that stuff and I'm not big on Instagram. I'll be honest. I, for me, Instagram doesn't work for me cause it's just, I'm not going to show up there on a regular basis. It's just one of those things. Now, could I have someone I could, but I look at the ROI on like a hundred thousand people and I get 1% like it's like, eh, driving traffic they're paid. Makes that makes more sense. But I'm just curious. So on that, on that approach, what is your approach on, on Facebook and Instagram to get eyeballs?

28:06 Storytelling is super important. Again, copy comes into it. And that really, really helps. So creating posts that not only give your audience great value, but also really interest them. So they be like, you know, stop that scroll and actually want to read what you're saying, whether on Facebook or on Instagram, that's where really well, um, giving clear, you know, giving clear, specific outcomes and takeaways. So not every post needs to be like a mini blog post, but think of it like a mini blog post or an email and then show up and deliver. So if you're posting say twice in the week, maybe one don't feel exposed could actually be, you know, and then you could like repurpose that. That's something that we do a lot of that goes out in an email and also, you know, maybe it may make its way to our blog or go into our Facebook group or even become like a video lesson delivered in, you know, on Facebook live.

28:55 So just kind of repurposing your material because people sometimes do need to hear this thing more than once. So that's important. So that third thing that will work really well is just being consistent. And I think it's great that you've decided Instagram is not for you. I think a lot of people need to be brave enough to take that decision and decide that, Hey, this doesn't work for who I am as a person, instead of just kind of, kind of force themselves through like a network there they're like so many ways for you to do social right now that, you know, you could just choose what ever, you know, what a cooler suits your personality and just makes it easier to engage with your people because when you aren't comfortable with the network, it shows and you could totally get someone to do it for you. Like we did it

29:42 For other entrepreneurs and bloggers and businesses. So you can totally do that, but you also need to, as a brand and as personal brands, especially if you have a personal brand, you do need to buy in to that network to some extent, because there will be elements that will require you to show up. And if you are going to feel like, ah, no, that's not. So for us, we realized that Pinterest, isn't gonna cut it for us. We just, aren't a, Pinteresting kind of a brand. So they're not on Pinterest. Um, desktop will never see us not going to go up there and do your dance or anything.

30:27 That's not happening either. And you need to be comfortable with that instead of having to force yourself into a network where you're really gonna feel uncomfortable and then probably wasting time and deciding to ditch it in the end. So just to kind of reflect on what it is that excites you about your business and how you show up. So you'll make the right decisions from the very beginning. And I think the value that you're giving also on social. So, so be sort of see it like this, that if somebody is on our email list does not follow us on Facebook or somebody who's going to look at our content on Facebook. They should get value. Irrespective of what troubles me basically choose to be on. And then, like I said, consistency is key. So, so with social content, we try and create the content with the sort of strategy that we have for those 90 days and have at least content available for say about 20 or 30 days in advance, be really consistent with how we are posting, but it really goes back to providing value.

31:33 Yeah. So what I'm hearing really then too, is I love this, that you brought that up, so it's more or less in that 90 day window. You're basically creating a runway to where you are going to end up. Right. So, uh, you know, if you're talking about, you know, email copy and how important email subject lines are and all this stuff, it might lead to your email copywriting training or whatever, right? Like, so all of that content that you're putting out is really, it's kind of just highlighting different pieces. It's helping it's valuable, but collectively, if you went and then joined into a program or bought a certain product that is going to give you the, you know, the entire training, but you're basically just bringing that up through your content. Is that what I'm hearing?

32:18 Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

32:21 So you're mapping that out. Like you said, you're going to look at the 90 days and go, we're going to map this out for 90 days. We've got a runway now. How, how long, so 90 days is about when you start. So like that's a long time, right before you actually might receive dollars in, in, you know, in the door. Um, has there been something that you've

32:40 Done for a long, you know, like 90 days or even two months, and then you go to do it and you're like, Oh, that didn't really work as it was supposed to like, has something like didn't pan out as well. And you look at your results, you know, what, what are you doing that in? Cause I, I mean, I I've done it and I've learned that I don't usually launch a program unless I beta tested it or something. Right. I've learned, I've built the training, I've done the six modules and everything. And I'm like, here it is guys. It's awesome. And then you get like nothing and I'm like not doing that again. So then we pre-sale and then we build, right. Like that's the new way, right? That's the way I like to do it. But so what, how do you, what do you do at that point? Like you guys together, you're a team. I know my wife and I are a team as well. It's kind of like you scratch your head a little bit, but how do you get through that time? Cause it's kind of a wake up call.

33:30 Yeah, no, we had that happen to us with one of our courses that we launched a way back, not like, I think a few years ago called sweetly blended. And how long ago was that? About three years ago. Three years ago. Uh, and you know, like great offer and had created the poorest, had guest experts at all of the words. And then I'm very excited, launched it. I'm like literally like, like crickets. Okay. So, um, obviously it was disappointing. Um, and then one of the things that we realized is that we, uh, you know, buy this book for a client project or for, for when we launch, we always do like a reflection on what went well, what could have been better so we can course correct. And that's, you know, and just kind of keep growing as we learn. So, um, one of the lessons of course, was this, like we now never open up anything on last.

34:24 We bought like sales, like the creation happens after the sales upcoming. So that's that the second thing in our business spot is that we've, um, we do client work as well. So, um, you know, we have client projects as well, so it's never like, you know, we don't have like 90 days where we're just in creation mode and there's no revenue coming in that doesn't happen with us at all. Like right now we're booked out until the middle of September. So, so, so yeah, so that's the, it all like the client projects coming in and then we also have, you know, like smaller, easier ways for people to work with us. Like say someone needs a piece of copy done really fast, so they can book like a VIP day with us status something we can still fit in, you know?

35:06 So yeah. Um, I'm hearing diversification is what I'm hearing.

35:12 Well, we can have multiple streams of income helping you achieve that big goal that you've got.

35:19 Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a big one. And as far as revenue is concerned spot, we don't pretty rely on what we make in, in these 90 days to really spend for these particular months. So we already have reserves. So even if you

35:38 Don't do anything for 90 days or six months, it doesn't really impact what we are spending on the business or how we are living. Obviously all of this has happened over a period of time. So we've been putting money aside. Um, so that sort of pressure that if this doesn't go well, it's going to impact the business doesn't really happen. And, and the other thing that's really worked for us is that, um, when we start the year, the first quarter, the focus is to really build revenue for the year. So whatever money is coming in, um, after we've looked at our basic expenses and sort of being ourselves for, for regular expenses and all of that, we, we already start aggregating towards taxes for the whole year, um, strategic development for the whole year. So within the first three to four months, we've sort of, uh, put enough fuel for the business that even if he take a dip later, uh, we still have money. If you want to buy a program, we still have money. If we want to hire a designer, um, we still have money if we want to join a mastermind. So, so the focus in the early part of the year is to put that money aside for all the tasks that we want in the year. And then the second half of the year is where we pack everything in profits.

37:02 Mm. I like that. I like that idea. You're like, you know what we got, we got like four months guys, we're going to go ahead and earn enough money to support our life for the next 12 months, but we're going to do it in four months. And then it takes all the pressure off of the rest of the year. If you accomplish that goal. I like that. I like that a lot. How, how much of this comes down to also living below your means? Right. Like not being like, Oh, I made a lot more money here. So now I'm going to buy that, you know, that sports car or, uh, you know, the car that you've been dreaming of or your new condo or anything like that. Like, so I guess like how does that much play into, cause it seems like you guys are probably pretty good in that area. I'm just, I'm wondering on this. How important is that?

37:50 It's, it's super important. So, um, for, for the longest time we said that we have what we earn. We don't really want to spend more than 50% of that. And then the other 50% is sort of divided into where it gets invested in the long term. Some in the short term, some is like the emergency fund and those kinds of things. So, so that's always how we've been. And, and the other thing that we've always been really, really focused on is that we don't do that. So, so if today this is what we can buy without doing that. Then this is what we can buy. And if, if we have some aspirations in terms of buying something more expensive, then we work towards it and then we spot start saving towards that. And that happens in say two or three years. So, so yes, absolutely. That mindset is critical.

38:44 Yeah. And having said that, you know, like we've like literally accomplished all of the goals and dreams that we had, you know, whether it was traveling to Paris for two weeks, uh, arson, Switzerland last year or two weeks or buying, um, buying the Audi. We, we, that was our dream car when he dream car, you know, like he's, he loves cars, so we like cars. Yeah. So, you know, but it was that whether it was buying our home, you know, again, like totally debt free, but for us that's important. That's, you know, like if, if we can make it happen without going into debt and you know, and it would help us improve the quality of our life, then it makes it makes sense and everything like for us, everything was not to value. Again, we always look at, you know, what's the value. Like we would, we spend a lot on organic produce because we know that it's expensive, but it's totally worth it because it impacts our health. And we've been on that side where, you know, we've suffered with our health. So that's something that we're not willing to compromise on, but, um, would I, I I'm like I'm, um, really expensive nail Polish, maybe not.

40:00 Okay.

40:03 Well it really, it doesn't make sense to me, so yeah,

40:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I, I think that a lot of people don't realize too. I think you could probably cut costs on your living expenses and have to make less in order to really get to where you want to go. Even if it's in the short term, right. Shave out, I mean, go through and just see where you're spending it. It'll it'll show, you know what I mean? And then you're like, wow, if you total all that up, I really need to make maybe $300 less a month or even a week if I just shave this down. And, um, and sometimes we can do that very, very simply. And it sounds like you guys are pretty good with that.

40:41 And I think to go with that, um, we've seen that this approach helps us aim higher. So if a hundred came would have been good for us to take care of everything, now we have to make 200 K because only then we can use that 50%. And, and obviously then in a few years, you get into a situation where you're financially really comfortable. So, so it's, it's really important to also see what you want to aim higher, do more work hard and, and get them. Yeah.

41:11 Yeah, no, I love it. I got two more questions for you guys and we probably got to have you guys come back on and we can drill into a little bit more of this marketing stuff. I love marketing. It's funny. Cause my story, uh, my wife and I started a photography business years ago as a way for me to get out of my construction job. And I didn't, I wasn't like passionate about photography, but I was passionate about getting out of my job. So I fell in love with marketing. I love marketing to this day. I love building brands. I love building things. Um, but so I would love to get you guys back on and just even drill into, you know, funnel stuff and email marketing and all of that fun stuff. Cause I know that you guys are, are probably really good at it and it would be really good to kind of share that with the audience and we can kind of dig in more to your expertise cause you are copywriters and you know, really, if you think about it, you're you're marketers, you know what I mean?

42:04 Like let's, let's call it what it is. Um, so we'll definitely want to do that. So to wrap up though, I got two, two questions. The first one is I always liked to, I wrote a book called the take action effect and it's really based on like, we do things and we don't realize it, but that one thing changed our life forever. And if we didn't do that one thing, where would my life be? I don't know. It could be better, could be worse. I don't know. But that one thing changed everything. Is there something that you can pinpoint that you're like, man, if we never did that, if we never took a little bit of a leap or a little bit of a chance this wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't be where I am at, is there something that comes to mind?

42:43 Oh yeah, absolutely lots of things. Uh, but for, for me personally, and also for us as a business, I feel it would be, um, in Western end, the right learning and developing the right skills. Uh, because when you invest in good learning and you know, you strengthen your skills, you can actually, if you're a service based business, you can show up and deliver for your clients. And when you show up and deliver for your clients, they're going to come back. And that's one of the reasons why our clients keep coming back to us for projects after projects is because we re we don't just like sit and say, okay, yeah, I know what copywriting is. And I've done like a lot of it. Yes, I've done a lot of it, but we'll just spend hours and hours learning a lot about it. So whether it was investing in Joanna Wiebe, copy hackers mastermind, and you know, like showing up at midnight or qualities to be at midnight.

43:35 And we used to live writing sessions and you know, else tempting as it would be because it wouldn't, it's winter, it's cold and you don't want to get out of the quilts, but you need to show up and you know, she would have like assignments for us. We would have live writing. And then, um, yeah, but the, the big benefit of that was that I'm like one of the very few conversion copywriters, like who's been certified by her because she's like very picky about who she certifies. So huge game changer also gave me like a lot of confidence and skills that I brought to the table, which again, you know, really makes a difference in how you show up in market. So that would be, you know, like investing in the right, learning for your business was always very, very important for us. So that's why, you know, like mindset would be, you know, when he does like the financial planning and the forecasting for the business, one, the first things he puts money aside as strategic development is because you always need to keep growing and there's a of just kind of following it, but you also need to be kind of intentional about where you, you know, what is it that you want to do and what is it that you want to be known for?

44:38 And then in West accordingly,

44:40 Yeah. Being intentional is huge.

44:43 Yes, absolutely. Okay. And the other thing that we've sort of really focused on is our mindset. So unless you have a positive mindset and you're willing to see failures is really stepping stones and learning experiences. So, so the launch three years ago that I was talking about, yeah, that was the last time we put a Facebook ad dollars. But, um, after that bond, it obviously took us about a couple of days to sort of take everything in and, and figure out what to do. So, um, we said, let's do another launch three weeks from now. We'll create like a super quick product and figure out the learnings that we have from it. Will they work or not? So it was not a really high ticket, uh, product. I think it was about a hundred dollars or so, but we sold it out in 48 hours. So we have that validation that, okay, the other launch didn't work, but these are the learnings that we had. And it's not just that we discussed between the two of us. We put it out in the market, people willing to buy it. So that's not a validates and creates that positive man plan. Yeah.

45:55 So mindset's huge. I'm glad that you brought that up and huge. I'm big onto that as well. Um, but so let's, I just want to, I got one more question, but this, this year is it goes with this here because I think it's really important because whether you launch a physical product, digital product, doesn't matter, you, you hope that it's going to do well. And then if it doesn't do well, hopefully you don't have $10,000 invested in that product. Some people do. And then they find out I can't sell it right. Then what do you do? And in your case, you might have spent a whole bunch on Facebook ads and then found out, Oh my gosh, like no one wants this. Right. They, maybe people signed up, but they don't want it. So I love it that you went right back to what you're kind of like, okay.

46:34 I was up at the, at the plate going to play baseball. I got hit by a pitch. And your father's like, get back in the box. Right. You're like, you got to get back in there, man. So you basically said, you know what, we got to do something within three weeks. Now we're compressing that down. We're going to get it back on the marketplace. What was your thing that you went out there and said, let's test this next thing. Did you do a survey? Did you, how did you get that thing that you're like, that's what we're going to ask the audience. If they want, now you get that little bit of validation.

47:01 Yeah. You know, like just kind of getting out there and talking to your audience and understanding that, what is it also finding out, you know, what, why did people buy? So was it not, was it, this was this not what they were looking for and what is it that's gonna really help them move the needle. And that is, you know, and this was like way before, uh, this is before we started copywriting and, you know, like creating our proprietary processes on copywriting, but it kind of centers on the fact that you really need to know your audience and what they need, because sometimes when people's samples of what they want, because sometimes people would say that this is something that they want, but that's not what they really need. And then it's up to you, it's your job to them kind of, you know, position it in a way that, that gives them both what they want and what they need.

47:45 So, um, so yeah, uh, essentially like we bought like a Facebook, got a Facebook group, we've got an email list. So just kind of reaching out like mindset, reaching out and people asking them and then realizing that this is what they really needed. There was like this one and we're also another fit in other groups. So just, uh, and I still remember what I did was I'd make, I put up a post in the Facebook group saying, Hey, look, this is what I'm looking to create. This is what it will do. And this is how it's going to help you. Is this something that you'd be interested in? And then if you are, let me know, because then I'll send you like initial copies, so you can go through it and, you know, give me your feedback that then we can use on the sales page as you know, um, beat out testimonials. So, um, so yeah, so just kind of, you know, like regrouping and not letting like, you know, not letting whatever it is that you fail at. Like, hold you back from that point. Just kind of labeling every launch with the same black team would not be helpful. Right. Yeah. So it's super important to just keep your heads sprayed and also, you know, just kind of stay, like you said, in like a positive frame of mind knowing that this six setbacks are like lips it's, it's odd.

48:58 It's part it's it's. Yeah. It's part of the, it's part of the learning process and you, you learn actually, instead of creating the product first, you're gonna, you're going to validate it first and then you're going to put it back out in the marketplace. And I think that's a, that's a big one for a lot of people to hear that. Um, so that's really awesome. So thank you so much for sharing that. So let's wrap up with this question and I like to ask all of my expert guests that come on with this one question, and it's simple, but sometimes it can be a little bit complicated, but we'll try to make it simple. And that is, if you were starting over today from scratch and you had to create a business that was going to support your lifestyle, what would you do? Like what would you do? Like what would be like that roadmap for you? Would it be exactly what you've done and just rebuild what you've done? Or would it be something different like, or just kind of give us like the framework? What does that look like? Good question. Right? Good question.

49:54 Yeah. Yeah. This would be very interesting to see what answer. So for me personally, I feel it was, it would be very similar probably minus the health issues he had, because that will, you know, that really, it meant that we were literally like starting with zero and to build that and do a, like, like a half a million dollar business has taken us a long time. But, uh, we, you know, I would probably faster, you mean have more money

50:28 To invest and things like that we had to pull back on. Um, so, but yeah, I love writing that. I love working with other entrepreneurs and just kind of, you know, like strategizing and seeing words and then putting words out there that other people love and they go like, Oh, this lady read my mind and Oh yeah, I definitely want to do something related to writing. Um, yeah, I'm curious to hear, but I wouldn't really change anything because, because I think probably the health issues or sometimes somebody getting fired or something else happening, it's really an opportunity maybe that wouldn't have happened. I would just carried on in my job. You want that safety net and you probably say money, then we would probably try this. So we always think of it as a blessing in disguise. And yes, we will probably just do what we're doing right now. Like a service based business that has a, that now has a group element to it to help other service providers and other business owners also take on like what we call, we like to call the sustainable scale approach to grow their business.

51:43 And, and what you just said about having the illness. And if you didn't have that, you that's what I was looking for for the take action moment. See, like I got it. Finally, I got it. Like that thing, right. There was something that there was a decision that had to be made. And you said, I can't go back to corporate because of my health. That moment, right. There is the one that I'm saying like, if that never happened, you might not be in the business that you're in right now. You may be still working at America

52:10 Express or whatever. Right? Yeah.

52:13 Got it. I got the answer. I was looking for it. You see all this works. It all comes to the end. Um, but yeah, no, that, that was what I was looking for. And, and not seeing your other answer. Wasn't good. But that right there, that little, that little nugget right there, that's a big one because when you're faced with that, you're thinking, this is terrible. How can it get any worse? But now you look back and you go, if that never happened, I never was like, I was working with my father's construction company, thinking I was going to own that company one day found out five years in that I'm not going to probably own that company. And I devoted all my time and energy, what am I going to do? I don't have any skillsets that I'm going to be able to. And then that happened.

52:51 We went photography business and the rest is history, but it's like those things there, they really stink at the time, but they actually, they took you to where you were supposed to go. And yeah. So I appreciate you guys sharing that. You guys are awesome. I love it. That you guys were a husband, wife team. My wife and I are as well. We have been for years, we've been married 26 years and in business for about the same. So, uh, yeah. So I just want to thank you guys. How can people learn more about you guys and what you're up to and just let people know how they can get ahold of you guys? Our [inaudible] dot

53:26 Com will be the best place for you to connect with us, just to kind of get a feel of how we work and what we'll be all about. Um, and then of course, Instagram is where we spent a lot of her time these days. So, so that's, again, content to be strong, um, on Instagram and just feel free to reach out, say, hi, we love chatting with, you know, people who listen to us on podcasts and, um, yeah, just connecting with you. So that would be awesome.

53:51 Cool. That sounds great. I will link everything up in the show notes as well, but I just want to say thank you guys for coming on. We'll definitely get you guys back on. I might even ask you guys to come on in and, and maybe do a session for our, uh, for our private community as well. And maybe give us some, give us some copywriting tips, you know, and stuff on ads and, and all that stuff. Cause I know copywriting goes hand in hand with everything, right? It's like everything we touch. So guys, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you have an awesome rest of your day. It's nighttime there, but have a great night

54:24 The rest of your day. Thank you. Thank you.

54:28 All right. Well there you have it. I wasn't kidding. Right? What a great episode. And also just what a great couple and man, they've been through a lot, but you know what? They've got a great attitude and they're always looking at it as a way of growing. And I think that's what we all need to learn from any of these interviews that I'm sharing with you is really how do we highlight that moment that they could have just given up, they could have just threw in the towel, but they didn't. They said, you know what? We need to make a change. And right now in the world that we're living in, there's a lot of change happening and it might be happening to you right now in your life. So again, take this as inspiration. You can do it too, right? It's a choice that we need to make and it's not going to be easy.

55:11 It's not, you heard their story. They didn't have everything come to them by luck. Or that everything that came their way was perfect. Right. They had to make new adjustments as they grew. So just understand that when you're faced with something that seems like it's really, really bad. There's probably a positive thing we can pull from it. It just depends on how you look at it. All right. So guys that is going to wrap up this episode. This was episode eight 64. If you want to go to the show notes page, grab the links in the show notes, the transcripts, all that stuff, head on over to brand creators.com forward slash eight 64. And you can grab all the links over there. All right guys. So that's it. That's going to wrap it up as always remember, I'm here for you. I believe in you and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to come up, say it with me, say it loud, say it. Proud. Take action. Have an awesome, amazing day. And I'll see you right back here on the next episode. Now let's rock your brand.