RYB 852 How Health Problems Turned Into A Fulltime Business and The “FAT BURNING MAN” with Abel James

I’m excited to have Abel James here with me today. I love the story about how he started and how it’s led him to where he is today. He’s also gone through many struggles and ups and downs, but he’s come out on the other side, ready to take on the next challenge, take action, and make things happen. It was a great interview and will show you that you never know where your journey will lead you. Let’s get right to it and learn from Abel! 

Abel’s Entrepreneurial Start 

I loved the saxophone in elementary school and learned to play at a young age. Music was very important to me, growing up and helped me build confidence and become the great speaker that I am today. 

In my teens, I was selling things on eBay and selling my music online, too, and have always had an entrepreneurial start.

After college, I worked as a strategist and got my business chops going. However, I wasn’t healthy and ended up being really sick for a long time. I was overweight and didn’t eat well. During that time, I actually ended up losing everything in an apartment fire in Texas.

After hitting rock bottom I realized that I needed to make a change and started to research how to live a healthier lifestyle and spent a lot of time doing research to find the best methods for me. 

Be Prepared to Pivot At Anytime 

Everyone gets burnt out eventually. For me personally, I’ve had multiple career paths, but I’ve created transferable skills that I can take with me no matter what industry or niche I’m working in. It’s important to see the waves and catch them when you can.

However, there are times when the rug will be pulled right out from under you. In these moments, you’ve got to be ready for anything and to move on to a new path. 

When you work online, you always have to be able to adapt because things are always changing. We’ve gone through multiple business models because things never stay the same. Just stay positive and keep moving forward. 

Get out there and go to conferences and meetups, even virtually. It’s so important to build relationships and networks so you can help each other to grow. Your network will be able to help you when you need to pivot. 

Abel’s Transition to the Fat-Burning Man 

In my 20’s I was following the wrong advice and was getting really sick all the time. When I started shifting my research I realized that I needed to change my lifestyle. I spent a lot of time interviewing people and coming up with my own health plan and within a month I saw a significant change and felt so much better overall. 

I started running marathons for a while and realized that it wasn’t that hard to achieve those results. I’ve learned a lot about fueling through nutrition and realize just how important it is. My podcast took off fairly quickly once I started it. There were a lot of listeners and had some great people on the show even in the early days. 

I had to deal with getting a roof over my head and making money at the same time as I was working on my business. There I was working remotely part-time as a consultant until I was able to make enough money doing my business. I did my “passion project” for free for about two years before I was able to focus on it full time.

I knew that I could make this type of business consistent if I put all my energy on it. You always need to make sure that you find a balance between doing what you love and providing for your family.

How He Created a Steady Flow of Business 

I had to determine what type of business model I wanted to get started. The most successful for me is a digital course that is priced at $27, brought in my organic traffic and podcast.

The other one is a subscription-based coaching program. That really worked for a long time. When you charge people for a subscription service, you have to show up because people will expect the very best from you.

When you’re the face of your business, you have to keep your business up and continue to make money, which can be difficult. Building business and alternative streams of business is a whole thing. When you hit milestones, there will always be another one. We love the clime and always want to keep growing and improving. 

If you think it’s right to pivot overnight, go for it. It’s really important to follow your heart. It’s important to work together and help each other become successful too. Some of the best friends I’ve made I have given “trade secrets” to and have wanted to help. Don’t always think of the people around as competition, instead learn from each other.

Abel’s Take Action Moment 

Saying no at the beginning for anything that was over the line ethically. I started a brand that could have easily made a ton of money, but that’s not why I did it. I didn’t want to do anything that would put my morals in jeopardy. It’s important to protect our audience and only give them quality information that is beneficial. 

Abel’s Advice For People Getting Their Start Now 

I'm actually so envious of people who are just starting out because you can be free and do things your way right now. People are making hundreds of millions of dollars doing venture capital and paying for traffic but have no soul, and they probably aren't as happy. Make sure you're doing what you love and don't lose sight of who you are. Find what you're natural talents are and build on those from the very start.

The digital space is getting very competitive, but you'll do well if you can get the traffic or sell a subscription-based product. However, keep in mind that the rug can be pulled out of you at any point. I would recommend building an audience and monetizing from there. That's what I would do if I was starting over right now. 

You can't just have sales. You still have to pay for your employees and other expenses every single month. It's really challenging to make that happen even if you're making a lot of money. When you're starting out, you don't have a lot of overhead, which is a bonus. I would build a community from the very start and provide value where you can. 

Just because you see people at the top and be successful, they’re still having issues and have to adapt often. 

Final Word From Scott

What a great guy! I loved getting to know Abel and about his journey. I agree with what he said about taking care of ourselves as entrepreneurs so we can take care of other people. It can be challenging when we’re busy, but he’s proof that it’s possible. 

Think about how you can relate to his story and learn how he just took action even though he didn’t know what the final result would be. It’s not just about marketing and business. It’s about how he’s taken his situation and turned it into a successful business. 

Thanks For Tuning in!

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“Remember, I'm here for you, I believe in you, and I'm rooting for you! Now it's time fr you to take action and go rock your brand”! 

Take-Aways From Today’s Episode

  1. Abel’s Entrepreneurial Start 5:20
  2. Be Prepared to Pivot At Anytime 12:21
  3. Abel’s Transition to the Fat-Burning Man 18:24
  4. How He Created Steady Flow of Business 26:07
  5. Abel’s Take Action Moment 33:30
  6. Abel’s Advice For People Getting Their Start Now 41:53


  • “Build a community from the very start and provide value where you can”
  • “Don’t always think of the people around as competition, instead learn from each other and help each other grow” 

00:00:00 It's important to not always think of the people who are around you as competition, even if you disagree or have different views of how to do business, it's important to really learn from each other and especially now connect with each other.

00:00:16 Wait, Hey, Hey, what's up everyone. Welcome to the rock, your brand podcast. I'm your host, Scott. Bowker a serial entrepreneur on a mission to help you.

00:00:25 This show is designed to teach you to inspire you, to motivate you, to take massive action and build a future proof business. So whether you're just starting out or taking your existing business to the next level, this is your home. Now, if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's rock your brand.

00:00:47 Yo, what's up guys. Welcome back to another episode of the rack, your brand podcast. This is episode eight 52 and today I've got another special guest that I want to share with you. Abel James, the fat burning man. That's the name of his podcast? That's the name of his brand. And the reason why I wanted to have him on was because, well, I've actually been following him a little bit on and off for probably the past eight years. And it's just amazing that it kind of comes full circle. Whenever you're in this world of online business, I was into health and fitness. I still am. Um, but uh, I seen this podcast years ago and I actually listened to some of his episodes, but he's really evolved since then. And it's just interesting to always hear how someone starts, how they actually take that. And it just leads them to where they're supposed to go next.

00:01:45 And you're going to find that by listening to this episode, it's the exact same thing that I've been talking about for years. And you're going to also hear some of the struggles and the ups and downs and how Google has given them. A lot of love him and his wife. They're a husband and wife team, which I love you guys. Hear me say that all the time. Cause my wife and I are husband and wife team. We've built many businesses together, but you're going to hear how Google was giving them a lot of ranking love. And then, well, because they're in that space to where it's, I don't want to say medical, but it could be because they talk about weight loss and all that stuff. And uh, they kind of gave that whole market that niche, a little bit of a slap, but they're building themselves back.

00:02:27 They also have an email list, which we talk a lot about that has helped them tremendously. They have a podcast which gets a lot of downloads, so they they've really diversified, but you're going to hear how they've also now started into some supplements, which they never thought that they would do. So it's just a great interview because again, you never know where it's going to lead you, but they got started and his story is pretty awesome because he talks about how his own health was, what was the problem, even when he was a young man and how he had to figure that out. And when he did, that's what led him in to becoming the fat burning man in the podcast and the whole brand that he's built up to this point. So I really, really want you to just listen in on this conversation that I had with Abel and just put yourself in maybe his shoes or maybe my shoes and say, you know what?

00:03:21 I've been through some stuff too. And that's helped me get to where I am never think about what you've done as a failure or as something that you've wasted your time. You're always going to be able to pull whether it's inspiration from something you've done in the past that will motivate you to push forward because you've been there. You've done that. Or maybe just the skill set that you've built because you went through and did that for a little while and you've built up some skill sets that you now have forever. All right guys. So I'm going to stop talking so you can sit back and enjoy this great conversation that I had with my friend, Abel James, enjoy. Hey Abel, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, man. It is going to be exciting to dig into your story. Super excited. You're here. What's up, man. How you doing?

00:04:03 Doing well considering, uh, and I just want to thank you for having me on, um, I've been listening to you for years.

00:04:09 Oh, awesome. And, and you know, I didn't know that until we got on here and did our little pre-interview, um, my wife actually has kind of stepped up to the plate, has been doing all my outreach now and I'm really focusing on just getting really, uh, good guests that have good stories. Not that, you know, make like, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, that would be great, but it's more about the story and kind of like how you ended up where you are right now and just, I guess how it happened, you know what I mean? Cause everyone kind of sees like, Oh, look at you, the fat burning man, like you're, you've been doing it for a while. And of course you're successful and everything turns to magic when you touch it. And you're like, wow, that's not really how it works. You know? So, uh, so cool. So you and I were talking a little bit, we have a little bit in common too. We like to play instruments. We like to play guitar and music and all that stuff. So why don't you give people a little bit of a background as far as able, like, you know, where are you come from and, and you know, what kind of, uh, you know, what kind of, uh, or where did you start I guess in, in life?

00:05:05 Yeah. Well, I guess as a, as an entrepreneur, cause that goes hand in hand, really, I think with being a musician or an independent creator or writer or any of those kinds of like creative things got to start early. And I think most of us kind of did. So for me, I remember just being in chanted by the saxophone in elementary school. And I think it was third or fourth grade, but like we didn't have any money. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire and uh, so buried in my grandmother's basement was this old musty clarinet that somehow I fired back up and got made a deal with my parents, that if I saved up enough money by mowing lawns, doing errands for other people, just like all sorts of stuff, then I could eventually get a beat up old saxophone and I did.

00:05:51 And then it was just, that was like, I learned a lot of lessons from that and it continued. And then by my teens, I was buying and selling things on eBay and selling my music online. Actually this was in like 1999, um, and getting thousands of dollars from streaming music back then before all the companies were bought out and the.com crash happened, it was, it was a really interesting time. Mmm. So I kind of learned how to fix instruments and sell tech technology computers a little bit, just beat up stuff for hundreds of dollars at a time taking gigs, uh, taking loans to get myself through college. Mmm. I went to Dartmouth in New Hampshire as well and took on some loans. So then I went to Washington D C to try to pay those off as quickly as possible to get a job as a strategy consultant, working with the private sector first and then later on with the federal government.

00:06:45 And so kind of got my business chops going and also focused a lot on research for my work as well. And from working very, very hard, long story short and having excellent health insurance. I became the most sick, um, as I ever had in my life, in my early twenties, yes, I was 30, 40 pounds overweight, high triglycerides. I was eating nothing but low fat, whole grains that tasted like cardboard and avoiding dietary cholesterol and all these other things. And so, uh, it was going through that rock bottom, like around the same time I lost everything. I had a, in an apartment fire in Austin, Texas. And so I had a moment of hitting rock bottom. And out of that came, uh, my, my blog books, a podcast called fat burning man, like you mentioned, focused on the health space, but really that's just the beginning of the conversation.

00:07:41 Like I said, it's, it's about being independent entrepreneurs creators and that sort of thing. So yeah, that's the focus of a lot of my work. And thankfully for 10 plus years now, me and my wife have been able to do this full time be creators, which is not without its ups and downs. It's exact says, you know? Yeah, no, that's, and that's awesome that you and your wife are doing it together. I've been, I've been married now 26 years. We've been in business pretty much. Yeah. We've been, we've been, uh, I got a 24 year old daughter. Who's about ready to have a baby, so. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. So I'm going to be entering the grant parent world. And I said, I was talking to my buddy the other day. I'm like, dude, I'm not, I'm not, I'm ready, but I'm like, I'm not ready to be called back.

00:08:22 Right. Like I'm going to be called it because it's a great part of my life. It's going to be about man. It's like, it feels like I just graduated high school. You know what I mean? It's crazy. But it's exciting too. And you're right. Like, uh, yeah, I've been married 26 years. It doesn't even seem like it's possible. But, um, my wife and I've been through a lot, but we've also been through a lot of great, like even business stuff that we've done and everything, and she's been the biggest supporter and I'm sure yours is as well. It's just, it's really cool to have your partner in life be with you through this stuff too. It's just pretty exciting. I, I, I seen it. Uh, you and your wife did the cookbook. It was a, or the,

00:08:56 The, it was a cooking class. Yeah, yeah. That was cool, man.

00:09:00 We've done a bunch of cooking classes that we kind of produced our own running four to six cameras at a time. And like, like we've tried many different ways of doing this cooking. eBooks was a big thing that we did in kind of like the early 2010s had a lot of fun doing that, made a lot of friends and did pretty well business-wise as well. But the thing is, especially when you're online and anyone who's listening works online knows this. You have to be able to adapt because I was thinking about it. Me and my wife were sitting down versus we've probably made over a hundred grand with at least six to eight different business models over these 10 years, at least. And almost every single one of those has dried up or just not worked anymore or only lasted for a little while. And then you have to find some other channel.

00:09:48 And so you've got, gotta be ready, but, um, but you know, what's interesting about that is so many of the people I'm running into, especially recently, or our musicians who kind of adapted focus their business, maybe on something else for awhile and are now as, as authenticity live streaming and just kind of more of a connection with peoples Mmm. Following that starts to happen and be more achievable because of technology. You're starting to see people open up and start to do some music, live streams, even if they usually talk about business or they usually talk about health and nutrition or they usually talk about something else. And I think that's a, that puts us in a fascinating and very cool time that has a lot of opportunity.

00:10:31 Hmm. It really does. I mean, I think about when we started way back in the day, I'm thinking brick and mortar photography studio, you know, not even digital camera at that point, we graduated to that like two years in and everything that we had to do just to drum up business. And now the tools that we have are just crazy because we can reach so many more people, we can target people directly and get our message out there and all that stuff. So it's actually easier, but yet there's still a lot to it, right? Like there's a lot that you can do. And sometimes that's a problem. And I was mentioning you, I had Todd Herman on recently and he said something to me that really struck. It really struck me as like, I've never thought about it like that. But if you look at like a franchise, they have like a box around their business, you have to operate within the box entrepreneurs, you and I, we can go outside that box.

00:11:18 We don't need to stay in the box. Right. And he's like, so you almost need to draw an imaginary line around it. You've got to play within the field of play. You gotta play within the NFL field or, you know, the, uh, the court for basketball, you got to go, what, what's your, what's your goal? You got to make a basket, you gotta make a touchdown. Right. Like we kind of stray, you know what I mean? Cause we can, you know what I mean? And then we get, we get all over the place. So I got to create boxes, you know what I mean? And it's like, and I think we all do it's uh, is that something that no, no, no. But do you ever feel like,

00:11:50 Mmm,

00:11:51 You're like kind of like, you're, you're going down this, you think you've figured

00:11:54 It out and then you're all of a sudden like, okay. Like, I mean, I thought I had this figured out and now I'm feeling like either it's an itch or whether it's something that you just have an interest in and you're like, ah, I want to go down this route. It's more or less like a pivot. Do you, when do you, do you feel that there's a pattern to that for you? Like every so often you're like, Oh man, here it comes again. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. Yes. Because um, everyone gets burnt out. And for me it's like, if you read my bio, it looks like I was doing all this stuff at the same time. Like things that are very different from each other different career paths. And the way that I see it though, is more like in high school too, to go back to that example where you take your you're in a play for a month or three months or whatever, and you're preparing and you're practicing, you're getting ready.

00:12:43 And then you could play all those gigs and you acquire skills by doing it that way. And maybe you don't make a lot of friends, but hopefully most of that is you create transferable skills. So like when I first started my podcast, a lot of people are just like, you rocking it up to number one in health and took out Jillian Michaels in like three months. Like how did you do that? And it's like by playing over a thousand live shows before that and being really bad at the beginning. Right. So I kind of, I had an unfair advantage there when I got into podcasting before most or before, a lot of the kind of people with those audio video, music, theater, chops, got it. And who they're definitely in now, now there's a lot of money in it. There's production. But like you have to realize that all of these different things are waves that you kind of have to surf on.

00:13:32 Right? Like if you try to get into podcasting now, compared to when I started my podcast in 2011, I think it was, it's like completely different landscape in every single way. So it's, it's really important to acknowledge that. And so I think it, yeah, it's, it's more like seeing the waves and trying to catch them and surf on them for a little bit. And then, you know, they use to mix metaphors. They pull the rug out from underneath you with no warning. So one thing that happened to us recently, and to a lot of creators in our spaces, uh, all of the organic traffic from Google, from search, as well as on social media, just, you know, all of these tech platforms are like not, you they're like turn it off or turn it way down to a fraction of what it was. So for a business like ours, we've never focused on paid traffic whatsoever as a business model. We're just dabbling a little bit now because when they turn your traffic off, that's organic, you have to do something about it. And so, um, that's something that, that, you know, we've been going through for a while and it's just like, what do we do about this? Does that mean we throw a bunch of money and effort in the uphill battle of organic SEO traffic, like we used to have, or does it mean that we instead build new skills in the areas that are most promising to find leads now.

00:14:52 And so you have to just step back and ask yourself that question with every Google update, with every social media algorithm update. And now at this point they're not happening every few months they're happening like every few hours. Yeah. I think it's diversification, right? It's like, we need to figure out, you know, again, you can't bank on one stream of revenue. You can't, you know, you bank on one stream of traffic. Um, but it is a challenge, right? Because sometimes you get complacent too, because you're like, Oh wow, the numbers are great. You know, like just keep cranking. And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, what just happened? I got, I got slapped. And now all of a sudden I lost my traffic overnight, or I got worse than that. Maybe you got, you know, de-indexed your entire site and you get zero traffic. I've seen people have that happen to them too. I've been employees delete my podcast feed. I've had employees lose my domains that were like the most profitable

00:15:43 For us at the time. Cause they forgot to renew them and missed an email. It's like, whew, you gotta be ready for that stuff too.

00:15:49 Yeah. I actually had something happen with the podcast feed. Uh, probably gotta be about a year and a half now. And I was, I mean, I was cranking, right? Like I was doing, I'm always been doing three episodes. You work hard. Yeah, I do. But I prioritize, but yeah, I do work hard. I'm a hard worker. I've come from the construction world and you know, I know what it takes to sweat and all that stuff, but I was busting my butt and uh, and everything's going right along really good downloads are great. And you know, subscribing everybody's subscribing. Like it was just great. Right. And then I started noticing my numbers were dropping a little bit. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And so I looked into our feed for some reason, I went into Libsyn and I noticed that the feed was basically, uh, it was not, well, I have any more in iTunes. So you could even search, you couldn't even search and find me the only people that could get it were people that were getting auto subscribed right. Or subscribed and getting the updates by couldn't search any of the lists that I was top 100 gone. And then, so we had to do that. And honestly, it's, it's taken a while to get back to that organic side because of that hit.

00:16:59 Yeah. And they don't tell you when, when this stuff happens, like you didn't change anything. It's just like something changed. And it's like, well, it's like every time I record most of my podcasts through Skype and like last week, literally, thankfully I was doing a coaching session with somebody, but it automatically records. Right. It's got this little thing and it's set up, it's ready to go. But sometimes it just disappears off the hard drive. And like the automatic features is just, they're gone. And then like may, maybe you recorded an entire day of interviews in that app. So that's happened to me before. It's rough.

00:17:35 Yeah. It's like recording a video and then you find out the camera wasn't on. Exactly. It's crazy. But okay. Let's, let's go back to, uh, the podcast, but also you kind of the

00:17:50 Fat burning man, if you will. Right. Like, you know, introducing that. And because again, you've been doing it for awhile. Right. And so how do you, how do you turn something that was, I guess, I guess take us through, like what got you interested? I know that you said your health was kind of bad and stuff and you were figuring that stuff out. What got you to be like, Oh my gosh, like I just corrected myself. I think I should help other people do this. And I should probably blog about it and maybe start a podcast. Where does that, that light bulb come on that you go ahead and you try to do that. Yeah. I was getting really sick, like I said, so it was working through that. And one of the biggest reasons I got sick is because I was following the wrong advice too hard, like harder than all my friends who weren't like getting sick.

00:18:38 Cause I was so fast because they weren't doing all these stupid things that doctors at the time were telling everyone. So anyway, I, when I really started to shift my research chops in that direction and I started to look, okay, so I just lost everything in a fire. I'm broke. Cause I just paid off all my loans, happily broke. Right. But still having nothing. I look in the mirror, I'm sick, I've got this like moon shaped face. I'm all inflamed, super pale overworked got this fat belly. And I used to be an athlete. I was a runner and, and raced mountain bikes and stuff. And so like that was a big bummer to be in my early twenties and to have that happen. And so I worked really hard for, you know, weeks and months just researching all this stuff, finding cyclical, ketogenic dieting in the bodybuilding circles from the 1980s band to books about it.

00:19:30 And inter but mostly interviewing people, just talking to them at the beginning and then coming up with my own plan within a month, I went from being, uh, you know, having biomarkers of someone in their forties or 50 fifties who has some level of metabolic dysfunction. I went to having the exact biomarkers that someone should have in their prime. Who's athletic in their twenties. And, uh, and I started running marathons and I did that for awhile, got down to really, really skinny, too skinny and started to learn the ins and outs of how all this works. But, but what I realized is that it wasn't in any way harder to achieve those results and kind of have that Brad Pitt fight club body that like most kids, you know, who are growing up and male at the time, idolized, you know, you were kind of going for that or the Wolverine or something.

00:20:22 And it took me a little more than a month to get there. And that made me really, really mad because it was doing the opposite, not being afraid of fat changing the way that your metabolism functions. I learned a lot about fueling through nutrition when I was running the marathons. Cause if you don't, you're going to bunk out and it's going to be really ugly. You know? So I learned a lot about nutrition through that. Got enough to say, you know, what, what Jillian Michaels is saying up there is wrong. It got me into this position, let's present an alternative to people. And I just started interviewing people and put it out there. And thankfully like it did take off pretty quickly and long. So we're like, it's really interesting how life goes because recently with everything that's going on and the stakes being so high with people's health and tensions in our culture and the world falling apart all around us.

00:21:18 Um, I messaged back and forth with Jillian Michaels and we're like kind of friends now, even though we totally disagree about a lot of stuff, we can come together over being people who, who believe that, that we should all fight for better health. And so now's the time to really, um, I think focus on how we can come together. Even if originally I kind of started as a rebel and I I'll never give that up. I still like always want to be a free thinker. But, uh, but at the same time, it's important to not always think of the people who are around you as competition, even if you disagree or, or, or have different views of how to do business, it's important to really learn from each other and especially now connect with each other. Yeah, absolutely. So you, you start the podcast start interviewing people really for your own research too.

00:22:05 So you're kind of like double dip in there a little bit. You're like, okay, I'm going to do research and I'm gonna pick their brain. I'm going to record it. And I'm going to put it out there and people want to listen. They can listen when, when does monetization come in? Cause a lot of people are like, okay to do this thing. I mean, you're doing it free and you're building an audience and all, and that's great, but how do you make money? I gotta make money. I gotta pay the bills. I gotta, you know, like that's all great. And all, did you have a plan going into it or did you say, you know what, I'm just going to build the audience and then we'll see what happens. Uh, the ladder really because, uh, and I was thinking about this today, actually. Um, I think about this a lot because as we meet, we need art and, and kind of like individuals to be creating more than ever, but you can't do that really without a roof on your head and, and being in a safe, warm place to sleep at night and being able to afford to feed you and your family and just take care of your responsibilities.

00:23:02 That's a really important thing. And I wish, I wish it weren't. I wish like culture's priorities were different, but they're not. So we have to deal with that. And everyone knows that, you know, broke musician, starving artist stereotype. How I handle that. Well, how I handled that in my own life. And what I recommend to other people is the way that I was doing it is I was still working part time, but remotely doing consulting and making good money doing it cause I'd been doing it for years and was hired out of college to do this. I didn't necessarily like everything about it, but until I could cover my living expenses, at least on a monthly basis and rely on that income on a monthly basis, uh, and also build up a small amount of cushion of tens of thousands of dollars in order to get you through six, 12 months of expenses, if things go wrong.

00:23:53 Um, that took me a good, a good year or two of doing pretty much all of my stuff for free or as a passion project. And I didn't shift gears until I partnered up with another, um, great cookbook, author and person in the space and a few of them actually. And then like one weekend, I think, I think I made 17 grand or we did like 35 grand in sales and I split it with them and I'm like, this is, Hmm, this is enough. This is enough. Now we can do this. And if I take that, all of that attention and all of that being on call for my boss, you know, working in consulting and apply that instead, she's just working my butt off in this business. I know that we can, we can, it's not consistent yet, but we can make this consistent, you know?

00:24:44 Yeah, no, it's, that's a great point. And it's kind of like, yeah, I had a similar experience where we did our first launch back in the day I was following Jeff Walker's stuff way back in the day. Like yeah. When it was just, you know, like when he just was introducing product launch formula and I could, I mean, back then it was two grand for the course. I mean, even back then, I remember I put it on a credit card and I'm like, well, he's got the money back guarantee if it does, or you know, like if I don't like it or whatever. So that, that does work by the way. Right. That's why we always need to include that in our copy. Yeah. So I tried it and uh, I mean I followed everything to a T and we did it in our photography space and yeah.

00:25:21 I mean, we did like 13 grand in like four days and I'm like, wow, crap. Like we used to work a whole fourth quarter with photography sessions and hopefully at the end I have 10 grand in the bank to carry us for a couple months. Right. Like that's what we were doing. And I'm like, we just did this in three or four days and we could probably do this again. You know what I mean? It's like light bulb, you know? Um, so yeah, I I'm very similar to what you guys did too. Um, so, okay, so you do that now from there. What do you do to create some steady flow at that point? Cause that's the thing like launches are great, right? Oh, boom. Influx of cash. And then it's like, all right, now what? And only lasts so long, right? Well, you have to ask yourself what kind of business model do I want to set up here for me, I've tried many.

00:26:11 Um, the one that's been the most reliable, the two that have been the most reliable in the digital courses space have been a, Mmm, a digital course that's been priced discounted to basically around 20 or $27 for this entire 10 years and through organic traffic and podcast traffic and things like that. Many people buy that course over the years, we've tried different upsells and things like that. So that, that funnel accounts for, and I'm talking about digital because we did start another business now with physical products. But, um, that accounted for about half of our income and digital sales, whether that was 1.5 million, which it wasn't our best year in sales, nonprofit important, or, you know, just like more recently where it's a small fraction of our business now, cause we kind of moved in different directions and now it's much more competitive. And then the other half was a subscription and still is a subscription based coaching program, group coaching for 27 a month.

00:27:16 It's been the same pricing. We discounted some people down to 17 who have been with us for a long time and anyone who's in it for three months, basically we don't tell them this and advertise it really, but it's not a secret either that we, we just grandfather them in and you've got it for life. Um, okay. And then we give free access to family and stuff like that. So that worked [inaudible] Google shut up our traffic, you know what I mean? So you have to woo. Yeah, it kind of happens all at once and it kind of, doesn't, it's very, it's a bizarre experience, but building a business and an alternate streams of income as a whole, it's a whole thing. So, and, and also, you know, if you're going to be signing up for a group coaching program and you're charging people monthly, even if it's only 20 bucks or five bucks, you have to be there every single month for the rest of your life.

00:28:08 If you promise people to make a podcast and the expectation is that it's going to be weekly or daily show, God help you because people will expect it every single day for the rest of your life, unless you pivot change expectations, unless things, you know, right now we just, I just, today was talking to my wife. We are hitting pause for two weeks. We're not putting out any of our own content based upon what's what's going on right now. And we're going through our, our past content for, uh, people who are of African American descent and chopping up those different, uh, videos and voices and highlighting them and putting them out on our channel and not focusing on, on, on building momentum meant I'm using my own voice and building revenue and that sort of thing. We're, we're adapting for a short period of time because when you build a business now, especially if you are kind of the face of it, that's another part.

00:29:04 Yeah. You got to keep the cashflow coming. Cause if you don't, you have to fire everybody and shut down and that's rough. And then it'll get ahead of you. Cash flows the biggest thing. And we've been cashflow negative for awhile as we shift and build a physical products business called wild superfoods. So, but the margins are so much lower there. We have good sales, but it's a premium product and the margins are, are super low compared to digital sales. So we're trying to ramp that up as the world's falling apart and all these cultural things are happening and we have this platform and need to use it for the right reasons at the right time. So that's another good of just like, if you think it's right to pivot overnight, do it. I don't know if I'm making the right call. I think so. If I'm following my heart and I'm following my intuition,

00:29:51 I think that's the big one though. Right? It's like following your, your heart is a big one. And I mean, I'll be honest, man. Uh, I was struggling with this for about the past two years really. And I mentioned this on my podcast, you know, I was starting to be labeled as the Amazon guy and I'm like, I don't want to be known as the Amazon guy. And I was actually talking to a friend of mine actually, Pat Flynn. And he was like, yeah. And he's like, let me ask you something. He goes, if you were to go into a coffee shop five years from now and two guys follow you in, and one guy knows you, one guy, doesn't, what's the one describing you as, and I'm like, well, right now it could be the Amazon guy or the e-commerce guy. He's like, is that who you want to be known from?

00:30:25 Like, not really. And he's like, you need to change and you need to start now. And I'm like, okay. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, and I like to share that just with my audience. And I'm glad that you shared that too, because people think that that's going to go away. Right? Like there's these milestones that we're hitting, but then there's another one right beyond that one. We just, we need to get to this one in order to see that one or to get that to that one. Um, and I think it's just also, we love the climb, right? Like we love the climb as much as we might be. Oh gosh, here we go again. You know, but it's like, we, we thrive on that. Um, and it also allows us to grow, you know,

00:31:01 It's kind of, yeah. And I'm at, let's see, I met Pat back in like 2012 or 2013 for the first time. And now, you know, we just bought his freaking tripod and it's the best one we've used. I love it. And I love following these different people's careers seeing, I mean, think of all the different business models he's used. Uh, and it's just, it's wonderful to see people be transparent with that. I believe. And I hope that the future of capitalism, isn't about keeping all of our secrets, private keeping all of our business information or metrics private, I think for this, this entire time as humanity, we should have been sharing with each other. We should, we should work together. There's there's enough pie for everybody. If we all get on the same page that way, right? Like obviously you have to watch, I've been taken advantage of many times over the years and that'll happen to you too.

00:31:56 Of course personally business-wise. But that doesn't mean that, that you have to just like give up and be afraid because it's always going to be that way. You're going to take some hits, but hopefully you make some friends and some of the best friends that I've made are the ones who I've given what would have been called trade secrets too. In the private sector. When I was doing consultant, you know, they would have been like super secretive stuff that if you shared that with your competitors, you weren't gone forever. You might go to prison. Why do we have a system like that? You know? So at least a small businesses masterminding with each other and sharing best practices is, is so important.

00:32:32 Yeah. It's really powerful. And I forget who said it, I mean, it's been thrown around, it's kind of like your net worth is your net worth is network. Like,

00:32:40 It's kind of like, you know, when you build that out, it totally like, and I'm sure it's happened to you, right? Like something has happened because you met someone in that opened the door to something, right. Like it's just like, you kind of start connecting the dots and you're like, Oh wow. Which speaking of that I do have, I usually ask all of my guests this. So I wrote a book called the take action effect. And it was talking about like your take action moments in life. Like there's something that happens that if you didn't do that, one thing, if you didn't act on that one thing you never would have been to where you are now, or it wouldn't have led you there. Is there something that comes to mind? Do you like of something you didn't act on something you didn't like trust your heart?

00:33:22 Like you said, is there something that you're like, man, if we never did that, we never would have did this. I would say it's saying no. From the beginning to anything that was over the line ethically. Um, anything that was a little queasy, I turned down over a million dollars several times over before we probably ever made like 100,000 or a few hundred thousand, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. I started up a brand that so easily, especially once it took off food has been abused to make exorbitant sums of money. Um, that is not why I do this. We have a four for 10, the 10 years that we've done this, when you do the math, it's like we have broken even almost every single year. We've lost money a bunch of years. Um, and when I say lost money, it means like paying my team and investing back into the business or just getting hosed. It could be either of those two things.

00:34:26 And then the year that we did really well, I paid as much in taxes. No, I paid more in taxes that I paid for my Mo my house in downtown Austin. And that was, was a life changing experience to go through that. And I'm just like, you know what? Working harder and making even more money. Sometimes it's not what I want to do either. So the way that I would answer your question is to say, I'm really thankful that we did this and we never crossed that line. Cause some people who did still do and, and you can tell that they don't sleep as well at night. You know what I mean? Like they're still out there. You're going to run into these people nonstop who are willing to do the things that you won't because their mind works in a different way. Like someone explained it to me really well recently looking at politics, actually not to go there, but that someone who is not associate path will never understand associate paths behavior, because they essentially don't have a heart and they're offering like meat, robots and people with a heart would just never do the things that they would do.

00:35:30 So that's not intelligence necessarily. They can be very intelligent, but you shouldn't, especially if you don't know some of these people personally,

00:35:39 Um, or you're not very familiar with your work, be careful idolizing the wrong people. Cause when you get up close and personal with some of them, you're like, Oh, you're a monster. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because I've met a lot of great people and people that I have somewhat idolized or looked up to, however you want to phrase it and whether it's a musician or whether it's, and it's, it's so funny, like almost instantly you can tell if they're really the way that they appear to be. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, even just talking to you like you, and I've never talked before, but the minute we got on, we're like, Oh, we can hang out. Like, I mean, you know what I mean? Like we totally get it right. Like, and you can see other people it's just like strict.

00:36:18 It's just business. You know what I mean? Or it's just like, okay, hit record. Let's go. You know what I mean? And I'm really fortunate because we do handpick like our guests and like do the whole background and all that stuff. And who do I want to have on? But also you're going to get some of those people. And it's not that they're, it's not that they're bad people. It's just, they're not my people are your people, right? It's like, you can totally tell, um, character in all of that stuff. And I think you have a good sense. And that's why you've kind of repelled that. And you didn't allow that in because you're also protecting your audience, you know, your audiences, you know, they're there, they're allowing you to live your life, man, and be able to do what you love. And, and, you know, I really take that serious.

00:36:57 Okay. Mmm. Easily important. Done. You have to make some hard calls and you need to tell people, know people who might have way more power and influence than you. You have to be willing to be like, yeah, sorry, I can't have you on my show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's totally true. Okay. There's two other things I want to, I want to talk about, I do want to get into some, uh, some health stuff or some weight loss type stuff, or even just as an entrepreneur, like, cause we can always make excuses why we can't exercise, why we can't walk, why we can't take care of our mind, why we can't eat the right things. Like we can make all of these excuses. Um, I've made them myself. I mean, I think we all can say that we, we get busy and we think that we can't do it.

00:37:38 So I definitely want to talk about that. Um, and also I wanted to ask you, like right now in the world that we're living in like right now, cause everything has changed. Like, you know, as well as I do, like we've got a whole bunch of stuff going on in the world. Right. And so right now, uh, and I just actually was on Charlotte today and I did a piece on there about pivoting in, in business and in your life because there's people right now dealt with no job or they have to consider getting paid less than taking a demotion to keep a job. But they've always been longing to do something. And I look at it like this is like a chance for them to do it. So if you were in a situation like that, you know what you know though, what would you do today to start somewhat from scratch? I would start with whatever I was naturally drawn to and understood as a platform, you as a user

00:38:36 Or consumer, I hate those words, but you know what I'm saying? Like you're the one who's, who's using this platform on the other end of it, like read a bunch of books before you become an author. That's one thing that I, that I see violated all the time, but I think it's a good concept that you can in metaphor that you can apply to a lot of other things. So I would say, you know, if that's tick talk or Snapchat or Instagram, um, good for you, that's, that's not mine. Um, but if it's, if it's literally just going to your local community and influencing that in some way, I think we will start seeing the real world start running into more and more of the online world. And I would definitely say, just go online right now. Even if you are a brick and mortar, everyone's being forced to now, it's kind of old news, but, um, yeah, but it's not like it snuck up on us and it's a whole, like the whole way that it works is so alien and different to people who aren't used to it.

00:39:37 Everything can be taken out of context. You can ruin your Kamir career in a millisecond before you even get started. It's dangerous out there. So don't do it alone. Find that that platform that you're using, um, with, with other members of, of kind of a community that you can come up with, I'll use PatFlynn again as an example, and sure, Jamie masters as well, eventual millionaire was her podcast back in the day when, when we all kind of met and hung out for a little while I met Louis House back in 20, I think this is 2013. It was at an award ceremony and some of us got awards. I got one for the podcasts, but mostly Vinny Vinny was there. Like so many people were there at the same time who have gone on it's become yeah, much bigger a lot of the time or they're still doing it 10 years later, whatever.

00:40:28 And you feel like you kind of came up, even if you're in totally different niches or verticals, you feel like you came up in the same class, maybe one of who was, was on the football team. And another one was a cheerleader, but like you came up at the same time with the same social, cultural technol influences of technology as well. And that's, it means something later. So I would encourage people to two, get out there, go to conferences or go to meetups, even virtually and try to make some connections with people who are coming up at the same time, because there'll be so important later. Many of them will flame out. You'll never see them again. You'll be generous. Some will take advantage of you, but just keep on going because I am so thankful for it for some of the people who I just met and had a beer with 10 years ago because now wow.

00:41:15 Right. Yeah. It's like connections and, and uh, you know, again, it's you, it's your net, it's your network. Um, but as far as like a business model, like right now business, and you've done a lot, I've done a lot. Like, you know, there's a hundred different ways we can kind of slice this, right? Like we can do that. And I'm like, all right, Abel, you got to make some cash. And you know, you got a year, man, you got a year. What are you going to do in a year? You, you, you have the skills though. You have the skills right now, right? You've, you've podcasted for how many episodes you've built funnels. You've done all kinds of what do you do? But I don't have the connections. Uh, I have the skills, but not the connections. Yeah. Let's go with that. Let's go with that.

00:41:59 Because I think connections, I could just make a phone call and someone could say, Oh, I'll send it out to my email list. Absolutely. Because that is to some degree where I am now, but then it becomes political. Then it becomes like a power brokering trust, brokering. And that's, that's a whole different thing. So people who are just getting their start right now, I am envious. People are so surprised to hear that. But I'm so, so envious in some ways, because you know, when I was playing gigs and no one, it felt like no one was paying attention. Those can be the most fun that's when you can be the most free. So the challenge is to bring that forward into building a business. What I'm seeing now is it's, I mean, there are certain people, especially if you understand paid traffic, [inaudible] people are making hundreds of millions of dollars, but they still have no soul.

00:42:43 And it doesn't change that fact. Right. Right. By having more money, it only makes it worse. So I've seen, I've seen a lot of people make hundreds of millions of dollars doing that, doing venture capital Mmm. Ourselves have done a New York times bestselling book and international bestselling book and ebook digital courses, subscriptions in person coaching in person speaking virtual coach. Did I say apps yet? We did six number one apps in a row. We've got the number one or excuse me, number six, app overall in all of apples, uh, app store with, I think over 250,000 or 300,000 sales. Wow. Don't do the app business down after that, it was a nightmare, really so expensive to run the, it was Apple takes everything. Amazon takes everything, you know what I mean? And wow, they'll make it. So you have to make an update, right? That costs you 10 or 20 grand overnight without telling you.

00:43:47 And, and that keeps happening with all of the different apps at the same time. So anyway, having a home, having a software company, so there's a whole thing. What we're doing now, I can say as the digital courses, space becomes more and more competitive. Um, we are still doing that by the way. Uh, so based on the traffic that I get from the website, the podcast and the rest of that, um, it's great. If you can have a digital course and get traffic there, excellent business model, especially if you could do some sort of subscription, I started up a Patrion channel. If you get a viral video, if you get enough people following you from doing this stuff over time. So my friends were making over $30,000 a month just by setting up that one, one channel. You're not going to there by setting up 14 channels and trying to do them all.

00:44:33 You've got to really focus on the things that work, um, writing books. I would not recommend for most people to do if you're an author and a writer do it for sure. But it's like for someone like me, I can't compete with the best copywriters out there or the best writers. Mmm. The same way that I can by using my voice as a trained musician and singer, uh, for a podcast and doing interviews and that sort of thing. Whereas a lot of those people can't do that. Right. Right. So you have to find what, what your natural talents are, be willing to build them. And then I like the model of, of digital courses. I like the model of kind of the patriarch thing, but they can pull the rug out at any moment. So of course, wild superfoods is the physical products, nutraceuticals and supplements company.

00:45:21 And also a bit of food we're going in that direction too. She'll see food. Um, eventually like one step at a time we're building that out. And that has become by far our most in sales, but not necessarily in margin and profit. So it gets, it gets tricky. You need, you can't just have sales. You need to be able to pay your team. Invest. Like just our overhead is, is at it's least for the past many, many years has been 15 plus grand a month, which is like, not that much, but generating that much in profit every single month, four, you know, indefinitely, no matter what happens is really challenging. Even for the people at the top of their game. I can tell you, especially now it's really, really challenging. And so no matter where you're at, like in some ways, if you're just starting right now, at least you don't have overhead, right?

00:46:14 Like once you get all this going, some, one of the interesting things as the economy has been tanking and a lot of the money dries up that I've been seeing is like these people who are running businesses that, you know, make 1,000 million dollars a year. In many cases, they're not doing better than we are, who, you know, we make hundreds of thousands. Our best years will dip into the millions or whatever, just a little bit. But like we still break even after paying the team and for the technology and all the rest of it. These people who, you know, are in the tens or hundreds of millions, they might be losing millions of dollars a year. Instead of, you know, for us, we've lost hundreds of thousands in years, we've made hundreds of thousands. So it's just like the swings get bigger. It's like playing a higher stakes poker game and it'll get ahead of you.

00:46:56 If you don't just keep adapting, you're going to hemorrhage money at some point, and you're going to have to stop the bleeding you're going to have to, it keeps happening. I don't know why it keeps happening. It always does. You can look it up. You're you're you're right though, because even John, I had John Gordon on who wrote the energy bus and the carpenter. He wrote a bunch of books and really great guy and a, you know, he's turned it into more of a, uh, leadership, a business where, you know, basically high level, you know, uh, you know, CEOs and just really high business people.

00:47:30 But he does a lot of speaking and a lot of his money is made through speaking. Well, guess what? Not speaking right now. Right? Yeah. I've got a whole team of people that are doing strategic coaching and all this stuff, but they need the leads from, you know what I mean? It's like, so everything kind of gets cut and, and he was talking about it on the podcast. He's like, you know, we had to adapt, you know, we got to do virtual, we gotta, you know, we've got to figure that whole thing out now. So it's like, just because you see, you know, the top, as you might see it, they're still having their own issues and they're adapting. Um, yeah, it is a mess. But what I'm hearing from you is that you would pretty much build some type of audience. Yeah. And then through that audience, you would monetize it either through Patrion or, uh, ma ma maybe it is your own digital course.

00:48:18 Maybe it's your digital book. Like whatever, that's kind of the model that you're saying that you would do right now. If you had to, um, if, if you had to start over, if that's what you would do again, physical product, like you're doing the supplements is a whole nother animal, right? Yeah. Whole nother animal. You got cashflow, like you said, you got inventory, you got shipping, you got customer support. Don't start with that. Yeah. So you can start with that, uh, more, uh, you can start with the other. Um, and so what I'm hearing is is, is you, you like to build an audience, get the know like, and trust and then sell them what they, what they need. Yes. I would agree with that, but I would change the word slightly to community. I would say, build, build the community. I like that. Um, for me, back in the day in the early 2010s, it was a lot of that was an ancestral health, paleo alternative health.

00:49:07 Um, but also like I was saying, like Pat Flynn, Jamie Vinnie, tartar, rich, and a few others, like independent creator was also another community, no matter what vertical we were in, like I'm saying, so yeah. Build a community and provide value to that community. Not necessarily by, by selling them products, but there is so much value as well in kind of curating communities, helping to build masterminds and that sort of thing. Some people are just excellent at herding cats. I'm not one of those people I can kind of do it. I'm bad at managing. Right. I'm not that type. So if you are then do that, it doesn't have to look like the way that all of these people who are taking selfies and taking pictures of their butts on Instagram, you don't have to do it that way. You know what I mean? Right.

00:49:54 No. Okay. Okay. Cool. Um, all right. Let's move into, uh, we'll wrap this up with, um, with some, some health stuff. Like, so I'm, I'm 40, I'm going to be 48. Um, let's see. In July, forgot what my birthday was in July. I'm going to be 48, right. I'm going to be a grandfather. We already talked about that, right? Yeah. So, um, I was at the best shape of my life, by the way, when I was 40. Um, I actually did insanity, which, uh, Sean T Oh, he's good friend. Yeah. So I did his program and I was, I remember watching it and, and, uh, and I was

00:50:28 Probably, that was probably about 25, 30 pounds overweight. Um, I would say I never hit 200 pounds. I was always been in my, I think my highest was like one 95. Right. But in high school I was like one 70, one 75, but we're about the same size, I think. Yeah. And I'm, I'm just under six foot. I'm like, I'd like to say, I'm sorry. I think I'm a hair. I'm a, I'm a hair under, um, my, my son will tell me that my son is six three and he's 22. So he'll always tell me that he's, that he's a lot taller than me and I sound stronger than you. I'm strong. Let's arm wrestle. Uh, so anyway, so, um, I'm always fascinated with it, but I also see myself, like I was literally, and I'm not saying this to brag or to say like, Oh, you know, like look at me, but I was dude, I was getting ripped.

00:51:10 I did P90X after that. Um, my, my diet was dialed in. As I thought at the time for what I was doing, I was, you know, calories was big, macros was big. Um, and all of that stuff. And I was just dialed in. I almost got a little bit, a little obsessed about it. My, my wife was like, you're no, you're not, you're not into it. You're not, you're not going to be competing. I'm like, I know, but it's like, I'm on a roll. Look at this. I got to sit the back now. I've never had one of these. Right. And I'm 40, you know, and it was, it was pretty cool. But I also found that that wasn't a happy medium for me. Like I had to figure out like, and so now I'm at the place where I still want a good physique, but I still want to be able to have a beer and not have to be like, Oh, you can't do it because it's not in your macros and you're not supposed to have weed and all that stuff.

00:51:54 And I don't want to have any of that stuff. So I don't know. You tell me, like, if you, if you were going to coach me, right. And anyone listening, like we're an entrepreneur we need to meet, we need to find time. What does it look like to balance that? So we can have a good physique, but also just be healthy on the inside so we can perform really high. Yeah. A lot to unpack there. I'll see if I can simplify it to do another episode on just that I'd be happy. I really would. I think we should. We, we should line that up. Yeah, man, because for entrepreneurs, it's kind of a special consideration. Um, but, but anyway, I'll try to answer real quick here, what I've recommended and the way that I eat and live really hasn't changed very much in these 10, 10 plus years.

00:52:40 The vast majority of my calories come from fat. Believe it or not. When you have to get high quality source of fat. So avoid industrial vegetable oils, seed oils, GMO oils. Those are almost all of the oils by the way, at restaurants in processed foods, right? Uh, in any food, that's this kind of prepared and ready to go. You have to watch out for those oils. So instead focus on the oils that we would have been eating a hundred, 200 years ago, the ones that aren't newfangled. Um, so if the animals are healthy, this is the biggest part. If you're going to eat animal foods. And we do, like I said, a lot of the calories in the food that we eat comes from healthy animals raised on according to their natural diets. So if you're a cow or a Buffalo, you're eating grass, you're not eating pellets.

00:53:32 You're not eating human food or waste or junk. You would be shocked by how low the standards are for your food, your meat, especially in the, in the United States. So focus on, on as high quality food, as you can get fresh foods are always going to be better, but don't be afraid of in, in my case, this isn't right for everybody, but this is the way that we do it. Don't be afraid of red meat, ruminant animals that are raised healthy on pasture. I'm not afraid of dairy. It works better for some people than others. Um, but I fast the vast majority of the day for 10 years, I've been not eating breakfast essentially and not eating until at least to noon. That's the way that I did it for the first few years. And, and for probably five years now, I've been eating more like one meal a day or maybe one and a half where I start eating in the afternoon, old school bone broths packed with college and you need to get nutrients.

00:54:28 You need to make sure that your joints are lubricated and all of that. Um, then I like to get a bit of greens and plant foods in there as well. They can be cooked. Um, we have a future greens like smoothie drink powder that we have almost every day and, and really like that. So getting your greens in, I do believe is important. Plants can be very important and really hitting your nutrients is what you want to do with a somewhat minimal amount of food. Like if you're eating less food, you're kind of winning to some degree when you look at longevity and that sort of thing. So the idea is you want to build an efficient metabolism, uh, for, for many people, that'll be fat-based. It doesn't mean that you need to avoid carbs at all. Cos I went for a big run up the mountain to 10,000 feet yesterday cause I was feeling a little trapped in my house and just angsty.

00:55:19 And so after that, that's when I hit my carbs right after a workout later in the day. So it's kind of like, you've got a budget, let's call it 50 to a hundred net carbs a day. It can be more if you exercise a lot. Um, so yeah, keto carnivore, plant based vegan, you don't need to go to those extremes at all. You can eat animal food, you can eat plant food. You can dabble in a little bit of both learn, which foods work best for you. And I would challenge people, um, more difficult or challenging in some cases for women. Certainly if you're pregnant, if you're a child like fasting, isn't going to be the thing for you. But for a lot of people you can get, um, you can get a lot of time back as an entrepreneur, those hours of flow, you know, when I'm doing interviews or I'm writing or whatever, they're precious. So fasting can in many ways, once you're adapted to it, help that. And so pushing out breakfast is something that I would encourage people to try. Well, I do that. Um, I generally don't eat until sometimes two, three o'clock in the afternoon every day. Um, but I do

00:56:24 Have, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, you said high fat. So I do that as well. Um, I have the Kerrygold butter is what I use and I actually, I actually make my coffee with that. So I'm doing the whole Bulletproof coffee thing, but only thing I have is just coffee with, you know, I don't know a tablespoon or a little bit more, I just slice off a quarter, quarter inch of the stick. I throw it in a blender and I whip it up a little MCT oil and um, I'm done and that's my coffee. And that's only thing I have up until about two o'clock, sometimes three o'clock. Cause I'm not that hungry. I'm like, ah, whatever. Yeah. And then I'll break it with generally. And it's funny cause my kids make fun of me cause I'm, um, I can eat the same thing almost every day. Like I don't care. Like it's just, so I have a plate full of broccoli in butter and I saute it and I just kind of do that. Then I throw two, two eggs, you know, uh, just they're organic, you know, uh, farm raised eggs. Um, usually two of those and then sometimes I'll have some leftover sweet potato from dinner. Um, just a little bit that was sauteed. That's it? And I'm done. That's it perfect. A little bit of water. Yeah. So am I doing okay?

00:57:24 You're doing okay. One thing I would encourage you to do if you can, is every few weeks or every few months or season you kind of switch up what that same thing is.

00:57:34 Okay.

00:57:34 With the seasons. You know what I mean? So it's like instead of eating broccoli, every single time you swap it out for some Swiss chard or you focus on onions and garlic for awhile or you do something else, uh, and similar with meats as well, we try to get like diversity is important when you're talking about the diet cycling things in and out.

00:57:54 So for, so now that's the one meal. Now you said you only had like one and a half. So what I'll do for dinner is it'll almost be a carbon copy of that, but I usually add a meat to that. So like last night I had some ground meat, some, you know, um, grass-finished meat and sauteed it and we get it from a local farm here. They live, they literally raised them here and then do the whole thing. And so that's where we get it, ground meat. And then, so I just saw tee that up. I put a little bit over my broccoli, a couple of eggs and then, uh, and that's it and that's, that's my dinner. Um, so, but then, you know, every now and then, you know, I like a little bit of pizza, so, and am I okay to just, I mean, what's your thoughts on like a cheat meal or everybody said, Oh, you can have one or you don't, you shouldn't do one for every two weeks. What's your thoughts on that? If you're young and you're exercising a lot, be as hedonistic and self destructive, as you want

00:58:45 Find where the edges are. But if you're like in more, your thirties, forties getting, getting older, then, then the trick is a friend who's much wiser than me said is to get the buzz out of having a beer instead of a six pack. So similar with food, it's like, yeah, you can have pizza, but you can't have the whole pizza. So just be reasonable, reasonable about it. Now the trick is, is that all of those foods like pizza and ice cream and modern processed foods, or even just kind of like even real food versions of those, they're kind of addictive and you can plow through them. So some people can practice

00:59:21 Self-restraint better than others work on it. And if you can't find some way of, of not having Ben and Jerry's in your fridge and only going for it on special occasions, you know, but we have to get ahead of our monkey mind and play tricks. We do. We do. Cause I could eat that whole pizza man. I used to. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, no, let's just let you seat that whole pie. Let's just do it, you know? But, but then the next day I pay for it. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I feel like crap. And I'm like, you feel like you went out drinking the night before. You're like, I do drink. You know, I feel like I'm crashing formation. Oh, inflammation is terrible. Um, and so last thing. So as a 48, almost 48 year old man that doesn't have a complete six pack. You can almost see the top of my abs, but you start, you know, you see it a little bit on his sides and stuff. What's the trick there is it doing a whole bunch of, I gotta do a whole bunch of cardio or is it just get the diet in, don't do that cheat day. Uh, are you counting calories? I don't count calories, but what, what would be your advice there?

01:00:23 I don't count calories. Sometimes my six pack is a little blurrier than others and that's okay. If you want to lean down, then you don't need to do caloric restriction, but you need to have some sort of energy deficit. And it's not as simple as it sounds right. But one thing you can do that that's an old body builder trick is, um, I don't have any fat in the morning. You've pushed that out to Oh wow. Okay. It's dead. Replace it with 30, 45 minutes of not intense, steady state cardio, a very light walk, a very light, you know, just pedal on the bike or something. The trick is you can't go glycolytic, you can't go above the essentially your heart rate where you start breathing too heavily. So if you're breathing out of your nose, you're kind of safe. But as soon as you start, you can't have a conversation anymore. That's, that's a little too much you're pulling from your sugar stores and you're going to get angry.

01:01:17 Okay.

01:01:18 The trick is to exercise very in that kind of like fat burning zone for awhile, you can have some black coffee if you want, but do that like most days for awhile and that'll lead you down. Another thing to lead you down super quick is by doing sprints once or twice a week with a recovery day. And all that looks like is running as fast and as hard as you can safely, um, for 10, 20, 30 seconds, and then repeat it a few times, a half dozen, maybe 10 times that can look like burpees. That could be sprints. I like Hills sprints Hills because they're actually a lot safer on your joints. And, and it's, you're smoked if you do it right. You're smoked every time. It always works. But recovery, especially, you know, I'm coming up into my later thirties now. And as you get older, like doing the hardcore burpees, unlike asphalt, isn't going to do you any favors after a while. So like going harder, isn't always what you want to do. You have to focus on and sleep too.

01:02:21 Yeah. Sleeps. That's a whole nother one, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right, cool. We're going to have to have you back on Abel, because I got to dig in more on that. I think we should dedicate it just for, again, us as busy entrepreneurs, we think we don't have time really to kind of go through what it looks like. And uh, and maybe you can give us some tools that we can use to create a better lifestyle for ourselves. And, uh, I'm always fascinated by that. So I'd love to pick your brain a little bit more on that. So Hey, anytime let's, let's do this, let's let people know how they can, how they can get more from you and kind of learn more about you and your podcast and everything that you guys are up to.

01:02:54 Sure. Thank you. So easiest way to find me is my name is Abel James. You can look that up on whatever platform you'd like and fat burning man. So go to fat burning man.com. I have over 300 episodes of my show with full transcripts video audio, all the rest of it, no outside advertising. And then, uh, I have a new book called designer babies still get scabies, and that's a funny and some more hardcore humor and satire. That's it. Designer babies book.com. And let's see what else, if you're interested in wild superfoods, uh, future greens, we have college and Coco as well as vitamin D vitamin C an adrenal stack and a bunch of new stuff. That's all@wildsuperfoods.com.

01:03:35 Awesome. Abel man, thank you so much for coming on. This has been awesome. Really great to meet you finally in PR in person in virtual person, virtual person. Yeah, here we are. So anyway, just thanks so much for taking time out of your day. I appreciate you and we'll definitely get you back on, but uh, have an awesome day and thanks again. You too. Thank you. All right. Well, I wasn't kidding. Right? What a great guy love Abel more than I talk to him now and really get to know him. I'm just like, man, I really, really like him. He's a guy that I could sit down and have a great conversation with, have a, have a drink with and just chill a really great guy, a good head on his shoulders. He's a musician like I am. And uh, we had a good conversation about that, but I'm probably gonna get him to come back on to talk more specifically about our health as entrepreneurs and how to take better care of ourselves.

01:04:25 Because if we don't take care of this ourselves, our mind, our body, our internal, like our internal machine here, right. Or outside of our, or inside of our chassis, I guess is what I'm trying to say. If we don't take care of that, what good is that? As far as taking care of other people, right? We need to take care of ourselves first. And it's hard when we're busy, right? Or we think we're busy. We don't make time for those important things. We don't understand it. Or we don't think that we can. And I want to get able back on a, for a future episode and we're going to dig into that topic. And I know that he'll do a great job in helping us out with that. So you can look forward to that one, but for now you might want to go back and even listen to this one, again, take some notes.

01:05:08 And number one, think about your own self. Whenever you're hearing these stories, that's what I always do. How does his story relate to something that you've been or something that you may go through in the future? Right. Knowing also that he didn't have all the answers, he just went and took action. And then things start to open up or you learn something from, from a challenge that's based, uh, or that's given you a problem or something that you've had to deal with. Right? So think about his story and how it relates to your story. And that's what I want you to really take away from these featured guests that I bring on. It's not just about the marketing and the business and all of that stuff. It is, but it's not all about that. I want you to think about that. He's taken, you know, his situation and he turned that into a business, pretty good business, by the way.

01:05:56 And, uh, he's got a bright future, but he also is very transparent. That's what I love about him as well. So, all right, guys, if you want the show notes, head on over to brand creators.com forward slash eight 50, to grab all the show notes, you can get all the links over there, the transcripts, all that stuff can be found over there. All right guys. So until next time, take care. As always remember, I'm here for you. I believe in you and I am rooting for you, but you have to, you have to come out and say it with me. Say it loud, say it. Proud. Take action. Have an awesome, amazing day. And I'll see you right back here. Next episode. Now let's rock your brand.

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